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Old 11-15-2012, 01:19 PM   #1
bush pilot OP
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overstay on Argentina tourist import for bike?

What are the penalties?

Last time I managed to forge the dates on the handwritten form issued at the remote crossings. This time I got the computer generated document with the appropriate multi-colored stamps making forgery more of a challenge.

They gave me 8 months but I'm going to need more.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:25 AM   #2
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If you are near Buenos Aires stop by Dakar Motos - They can help
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto-treks View Post
If you are near Buenos Aires stop by Dakar Motos - They can help
Cross to Uruguay and back again. Careful with forgering docs once are in their system. It could be fatal.

Dakar Motos is a private business and I doubt it they are going to get involved.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:12 PM   #4
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Do not go to the border on an expired import visa, your bike will most likely be confiscated.

If your passport stamp is expired deal with that first. A day trip to Colonia on one of the boat tours is an easy fix. You will be charged 300 pesos (there is no way around this charge from what I understand) and you'll get your exit stamp and you'll be back in BA that night with a fresh stamp.

Once your passport is up to date (or if your passport stamp is still good) you can get an extension on your import visa at the aduana office (can't recall the name at the moment downtown BA. I did this, they were very nice to me and I didn't get charged a penalty. Easy Peasy.

I'll say it again, do not show up at the border on your bike with an expired import visa, I doubt you will like the outcome.

Contact me offline if you need more specific instructions.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:34 PM   #5
Javier K.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bush pilot View Post
What are the penalties?

Last time I managed to forge the dates on the handwritten form issued at the remote crossings. This time I got the computer generated document with the appropriate multi-colored stamps making forgery more of a challenge.

They gave me 8 months but I'm going to need more.
Is really funny how for so long you where complaining about my country and now you confess how you commit a felony forging an official permission and now you want to do it again…

I’m copying you below what you sign in the TVIP.
“Me comprometo a retornar al exterior con el vehículo y los elementos detallados precedentemente dentro del plazo acordado, o en su defecto a pagar los derechos y gravámenes que correspondan. Me obligo a cumplir las instrucciones que figuran al dorso y me doy por notificado que la salida fuera de termino constituye una infracción penada por la legislación Argentina con una multa cuya valor será de 1 a 5 veces el importe de los tributos que gravan la importación para consumo y que no podrá ser inferior al 30% del valor en aduana del vehículo, aun cuando no estuviese gravado (Ley nº 22415 Art.970)”

I compromised myself to return the vehicle and the elements detailed above outside the country and within the agreed period, or failing to pay duties and taxes that apply. I agree to comply with the instructions given overleaf and I give notice that the out of term constitutes an infringement punishable by Argentina which fine value is 1 to 5 times the amount of taxes levied on imports for consumption and which may not be less than 30% of customs value of the vehicle, even if it were not taxed (Art.970 Law No. 22415)
Also the law says that plus the fine the bike can be confiscate.
“Art 970 punto 2. Si la importación para consumo o la exportación para consumo, según el caso, de la mercadería en infracción se encontrare prohibida se aplicará además su decomiso.”
Art 970 paragraph 2. If the import or export, of the merchandise in violation is finds prohibited it applies also the confiscation.

I must let you know that the taxes for the import of a used vehicle (only allowed under very special conditions and mostly forbidden for not Argentinean people) could be up to around 80% of the vehicle value for customs. This mean the value is not what you declare on your TVIP or what you think is the value in your country, is what customs officers decide it cost.

All this means that, in the best scenery, you will pay 80 % of what you say that your bike cost. In the worst scenery you will pay 5 time 80% of what custom decide your bike cost. And in both sceneries your bike also can be confiscate before you pay the fine.
I hope this give you an Idea why the best option for you is to don’t overstay your temporal import. Or store your bike in a different country maybe somewhere where they like people like you who love to talk shit about Argentina while breaking our laws.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GastonUSAChile View Post
Cross to Uruguay and back again. Careful with forgering docs once are in their system. It could be fatal.

Dakar Motos is a private business and I doubt it they are going to get involved.
Gaston
WTF are you to say what we are????
From long time I’m reading how you usufruct the ADV for your own benefit, even lying to people about Argentina and many other things, breaking the forums rules about vendors and spammers, and a lot more even making parabolic reference about us that usually I ignore…
At least pay a domain and a server and get your own website.
This time you are very brave or very stupid to mention us.
(en mi barrio dirían que metas tu nariz en tus propios asuntos)
For your information, DakarMotos, Sandra & me are a lot more than just a private business
Just for this time I will keep calm but I will watch you closer…

Si crees en Dios, pídele que nunca nos crucemos…
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier K. View Post
Gaston
WTF are you to say what we are????
From long time I’m reading how you usufruct the ADV for your own benefit, even lying to people about Argentina and many other things, breaking the forums rules about vendors and spammers, and a lot more even making parabolic reference about us that usually I ignore…
At least pay a domain and a server and get your own website.
This time you are very brave or very stupid to mention us.
(en mi barrio dirían que metas tu nariz en tus propios asuntos)
For your information, DakarMotos, Sandra & me are a lot more than just a private business
Just for this time I will keep calm but I will watch you closer…

Si crees en Dios, pídele que nunca nos crucemos…
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:21 PM   #8
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Here's what I like about Javier: you don't want to fuck with Javier!

I like Javier. Sandra is the best, too. A trip to Dakar Motos is worth the trip to Buenos Aires.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:51 AM   #9
GastonUSAChile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier K. View Post
Gaston
WTF are you to say what we are????
From long time I’m reading how you usufruct the ADV for your own benefit, even lying to people about Argentina and many other things, breaking the forums rules about vendors and spammers, and a lot more even making parabolic reference about us that usually I ignore…
At least pay a domain and a server and get your own website.
This time you are very brave or very stupid to mention us.
(en mi barrio dirían que metas tu nariz en tus propios asuntos)
For your information, DakarMotos, Sandra & me are a lot more than just a private business
Just for this time I will keep calm but I will watch you closer…

Si crees en Dios, pídele que nunca nos crucemos…
I think you should read well what I said. I am totally against forge documents and I advice Bushpilot NOT DOING IT. I don't know if BP has expired or not his TP but I only said , going to Uruguay and return to Argentina to get more months.
Also you should read what I said about Dakar Motos. I know that you are a hostel and help riders and others to export their bikes. Good for that. I recommended another inmate here not to use your business to resolve expired TPs or trying to forger computerized documents. Nobody , not you, not me would do such help.
If Argentina is using a network system to control entries and exits, I assume the risk of overstaying with an expired TPIV es even riskier.

Don't over react for comments that I did not do. Then comes Banana with his usual type of statements like saying 'don't fuck with Javier'. It is clear that he also misinterpreted my comment. He always do, doesn't matter what is the issue.


Nunca he trabajado con DAKAR motos y tampoco en Argentina. Al contrario cada vez que me piden algo en USA en relacion a Argentina los he recomendado, asi no los conozca.
Creo que me interpretastes las palabras mal en mi primer comentario en este thread. Y es injusto que hagas tales comentarios.
Hasta donde me compete , pueden hacer y ayudar a quien quieran. Lo unico que acosejo a todos es no extralimitarse y hacer cosas no debidas , que ellos mismos no las harian en sus propios paises. Me refiero a los turistas.

En relacion a tener mi propia pagina, la misma va a salir pronto, pero por por ello no dejo de tener mucho trabajo. Y en cuanto a las palabras usadas, spammer, o tus criticas de mis opiniones , 'lyer' about Argentina, etc..etc.. creo que Bananaman fue el que te dio la pauta para escribir tales acusaciones.
Nunca escribo nada de Argentina , excepto a aquellos que les recomiendo usar carreteras Argentinas cuando es atractivo. Otro como los problemas que tienen hoy con el mercado del dolar y que no tiene nada de mentira, porque asi como sureno, leo las leyes y periodicos de nuestros paises.

Te repito, no tengo nada contra Uds (Dakar Motos), al contrario hasta lo he recomendado. Pero ganarse tus acusaciones por algo que interpretastes mal no lo considero justo y apropiado.

Ahora, a Dios lo invoco por otras cosas. El decir 'no cruzarnos' es amenazante y no me gusta ese tipo de cosas, Algun dia si tuvieramos que ayudarnos mutuamente, por alguna razon por Dios y la vida, bueno a ayudarse se trata.
Saludos
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:08 AM   #10
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Argentitnian Customs regulations for 'non' resident Argentinians. (AFIP ARGENTINA)

http://www.afip.gob.ar/aduana/circulacionVehiculos.asp

Ingreso a la Argentina de vehículos de viajeros residentes en los demás países (vehicles of 'non' residents entering Argentina)

Documentación a Presentar a la entrada (docs require on entry):

Título de Propiedad a su nombre emitido por autoridad competente del exterior o, en caso de no ser el propietario, poder suficiente para conducir el vehículo otorgado por el propietario mediante instrumento público. (Title with owner's name)
Licencia para conducir, con validez en la República Argentina (Driver License)
Comprobante de Seguro a través del certificado de la póliza de seguro de responsabilidad civil por daños causados a personas y de Seguro a través del certificado de la póliza de seguro de responsabilidad civil por daños causados a personas y objetos no transportados en el vehículo a favor del propietario o conductor del vehículo con cobertura en la república Argentina. (Insurance for the vehicle)









Plazo de Permanencia (permanency period):

El plazo a otorgar será de hasta OCHO (8) MESES, prorrogables en la medida en que la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones, prorrogue la permanencia temporal del viajero en el país. (8 Month or 'possible extension' based only on the visa status allowed in the country at one time. You must be in Argentina and apply for an extension of you on your tourist visa and before expiration.
Technically, If you left Argentina and came back on another time the extension after 8 month won't apply.

Importante: Cuando se trate de ciudadanos argentinos radicados en el exterior con una antigüedad no inferior a UN (1) AÑO, además de la documentación exigida anteriormente, deberán presentar un certificado emitido por el Consulado Argentino correspondiente a la jurisdicción del domicilio en el exterior y cambio de domicilio en su documento de identidad, que acredite dicho plazo de permanencia. En tal caso, el plazo a otorgar a la permanencia del vehículo en admisión temporal será de hasta NOVENTA (90) DÍAS, en viajes ocasionales, imporrogables, y por año calendario. (Only for Argentinians living abroad and entering with a vehicle. 90 days max , no extension , on one (1) year calendar.

Con anterioridad al vencimiento del plazo otorgado a la permanencia, el interesado deberá producir el retorno, de no ser así el interesado será pasible de ser sancionado por infracción al régimen de admisión temporaria de mercaderías, de acuerdo a lo establecido por al Art. 970 del Código Aduanero.
(
If your vehicle's Temporary admission expire, sanctions apply per Art.970 Custom's Code)

Law taken from AFIP and comments by me.
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GastonUSAChile screwed with this post 11-17-2012 at 11:21 AM
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier K. View Post
Is really funny how for so long you where complaining about my country and now you confess how you commit a felony forging an official permission and now you want to do it again…

Or store your bike in a different country maybe somewhere where they like people like you who love to talk shit about Argentina while breaking our laws.

"People like me who love to talk shit"??? You mean world travelers who ride motorcycles, who speak several languages? Kinda like the people who are like your customers?

I never complained about your country, I made some accurate and pointed observations based my experience. If you can't handle that you have a bigger problem than I previously may of thought.
Do you honestly think it's the "travelers" job to kiss your ass?
Somehow I'm getting the impression you will be seeing fewer and fewer travelers.


Anyway, I simply asked a question re. overstay penalty, to which you gave a very windy and officious answer.
Seems to me you should know what really happens from direct experience with so many travelers, no spout off a bunch of officious nonsense.

Yea sure I altered a number of a temp import permit and used it and to eave the country. Big deal right!.....no, no one paid any mind.
I never implied I wished to do that again, in fact the idea behind this thread is to avoid having to do just that.

I never solicited false accusations from you, nor for you dispense oversensitive nationalist/socialist proclivities.
If you want to start a thread about how wonderful or not Argentina is and how you love your government pension benefits please do. I for one would love to read about it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:06 AM   #12
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We understand you fine. Nothing was misinterpreted. And I certainly have no influence over Dakar Motos! Javier is the most experienced everything-moto person I have ever met.

When I met him, I was straight from Ushuaia, as dirty from the road as a rider can be, still caked with Tierra del Fuego ripio. I was as full of myself as I've ever been, straight from Alaska to Ushuaia and up to Buenos Aires feeling like I'd just accomplished something amazing. And Javier says, "That's nice. We're having pizza." And in the back of the shop, with pizza and beer, were a dozen other riders, everyone in the middle or the beginning or the end of something that made my little ride...

I certainly have zero influence over Javier. Nobody influences him. He makes up his own mind about everything.

Once upon a time in America, there was a phrase "tell it to the Marines." In the world of overland transcontimental travel, better than anything, "tell it to Javier."

sincerely,

Bananaman

edit: I just looked up "tell it to the Marines" on wikipedia, and I'm sorry to say that wikipedia has it wrong, at least it's not the way it was taught to me when I was a Marine. We were told that the phrase, "tell it to the Marines," was to test what you were saying as bullshit or not, because Marines, having been everywhere and seen everything, would know if something outlandish would be true. Flying fish, for example- let's say you were telling a story about flying fish, and somebody said, "bullshit. Fish don't fly." Then you could find a Marine, and ask him, "have you ever seen flying fish?" And if the Marine said yes, then your story wasn't bullshit. But if the Marine said No, I've Never Seen Flying Fish, then your story might well be bullshit. Javier, in my example above, is the equivalent of the Marine Corps Sergeant Major, a wise old son-of-a-bitch that nobody fucks with, and he's actually a nice guy.

Or, in modern usage, he's like Bo, as in Bo Jackson, the great athlete featured in Nike's "Bo Knows" commercials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GastonUSAChile View Post
I think you should read well what I said. I am totally against forge documents and I advice Bushpilot NOT DOING IT. I don't know if BP has expired or not his TP but I only said , going to Uruguay and return to Argentina to get more months.
Also you should read what I said about Dakar Motos. I know that you are a hostel and help riders and others to export their bikes. Good for that. I recommended another inmate here not to use your business to resolve expired TPs or trying to forger computerized documents. Nobody , not you, not me would do such help.
If Argentina is using a network system to control entries and exits, I assume the risk of overstaying with an expired TPIV es even riskier.

Don't over react for comments that I did not do. Then comes Banana with his usual type of statements like saying 'don't fuck with Javier'. It is clear that he also misinterpreted my comment. He always do, doesn't matter what is the issue.


Nunca he trabajado con DAKAR motos y tampoco en Argentina. Al contrario cada vez que me piden algo en USA en relacion a Argentina los he recomendado, asi no los conozca.
Creo que me interpretastes las palabras mal en mi primer comentario en este thread. Y es injusto que hagas tales comentarios.
Hasta donde me compete , pueden hacer y ayudar a quien quieran. Lo unico que acosejo a todos es no extralimitarse y hacer cosas no debidas , que ellos mismos no las harian en sus propios paises. Me refiero a los turistas.

En relacion a tener mi propia pagina, la misma va a salir pronto, pero por por ello no dejo de tener mucho trabajo. Y en cuanto a las palabras usadas, spammer, o tus criticas de mis opiniones , 'lyer' about Argentina, etc..etc.. creo que Bananaman fue el que te dio la pauta para escribir tales acusaciones.
Nunca escribo nada de Argentina , excepto a aquellos que les recomiendo usar carreteras Argentinas cuando es atractivo. Otro como los problemas que tienen hoy con el mercado del dolar y que no tiene nada de mentira, porque asi como sureno, leo las leyes y periodicos de nuestros paises.

Te repito, no tengo nada contra Uds (Dakar Motos), al contrario hasta lo he recomendado. Pero ganarse tus acusaciones por algo que interpretastes mal no lo considero justo y apropiado.

Ahora, a Dios lo invoco por otras cosas. El decir 'no cruzarnos' es amenazante y no me gusta ese tipo de cosas, Algun dia si tuvieramos que ayudarnos mutuamente, por alguna razon por Dios y la vida, bueno a ayudarse se trata.
Saludos

bananaman screwed with this post 11-19-2012 at 06:17 AM
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bush pilot View Post
"People like me who love to talk shit"??? You mean world travelers who ride motorcycles, who speak several languages? Kinda like the people who are like your customers?
I would guess that in our small world, where riders from all over the world converge in Buenos Aires, over pizza and beer and in the middle of very serious conversations about how to do this crazy sport and live, there are more than a few who don't suffer Gaston, there are more than a few who review the pages of advrider and the HUBB and have formed their own opinions of Gaston and all the other vendor spammers.

Not only have I actually been to Dakar Motos, but I've also heard great things about Javier and Sandra, from riders who I've actually met (and not just read online, but actually met in person). I've never met anyone (in real life) who has actually met, actually used, and is actually happy with Gaston. I have actually met a few riders who have, like me, guessed that "Gaston" is actually several people posting under one name, but we don't know who "Gaston" actually is.

Tip for reading Javier: imagine a big teddy bear. Like a Master Sergeant turned vegetarian peacenik. He sounds all gruff and he can sound more than a little tough, but that's because he loves you, and he especially doesn't want another midnight phone-call from someone begging for him to come bail them out of jail.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:07 AM   #14
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For your infromaiton I am the only on here . GASTON and I don't have other pseudos.
Seriously I think you have paranoid problems.
I personally pro of Dakar business and good for them . I have mine with different solutions and 100% of my clients are happy and highly recommend me. So, what ever you want to say or add is bull shit to me .
And no, you don't read well my statements, because your mind preconceive everything before you post.

As I told you long time ago, and of you remember , blaspheme against a business or a person without reason is serious . A moderator had already to make you erase your post in my vendor's section. So, careful with your posts and attacks.

Sheeting around against the law on another countries is not right and not healthy. I am the first to promote at least in my country the U.S. and Chile (2 best countries in America) with transparency and following the law.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:22 AM   #15
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Well Gaston is for real and indeed provides a service for us advriders.

I gave Javier a couple of opportunities to make some money off me but he wasn't able to deliver.
First I asked about tires and it took him a week to respond to an email so I considered him less than reliable. On another occasion I inquired about a sprocket for the KLR, which he claimed was impossible to get in Argentina. After wasting a bunch of time and effort trying to get the sprocket in Bangkok I ended up getting the sprocket delivered in Buenos Aires within 10 days through another local friendly advrider channel for a modest $50 fee. Seems strange to me Javier wouldn't be in the "know" about such options for getting parts.

Now he's on his high horse about the petty bureaucratic paperwork in a country that's in deep economic doodoo.
Argentina is about to be expelled from the IMF, which means they will default and suffer a currency devaluation. Currently the Argentine peso is trading on the black market for a 27% devaluation over the official rate.

Another national strike has been announced for tomorrow. Which likely means more piles of garbage of the streets of Buenos Aires.

I'm sorry Javier if you think this is "talking shit" about your country; but it is simply me observing the news and factual current event's in Argentina.
If my observations are incorrect please enlighten me. I hate to wander around in ignorance.
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