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Old 11-16-2012, 08:46 PM   #71206
Feelers
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
Nothing to do with the environment; it depends solely on the impact forces... frame flex is mainly along the transverse plane... you need transverse forces to excite frame resonances... Picture a seam without any height difference between the left and right planes...
I could start expounding on the physics of sharp impacts, Fourier transforms, low pass filters, and resonant frequencies, but something tells me that you're not really posing these questions in order to learn anything new.
You're right, John. I was posing the questions to try to break through the barrage of what seems to be a bunch of BS designed to impress people who never heard your technical vocabulary before. I understand that sideways forces might cause sideways frame flex. I understand what resonant frequencies are. I've used fourier transforms - but am quite rusty. And I know very little about dampening with frequency filters. If the frame does flex, it doesn't bother me; however, as a curious young lad I would like to verify your hypothesis using my bike. What are some specific maneuvers that would allow me to feel the frame flex - besides the seam thing...

So, you assert that only a sideways impact force can give the proper jerk to excite the resonant frequency. I think this essentially relegates the problem to going over a bump or edge while leaned over. Yet, you stated that a wandering feeling exists while riding down the road. If you are just riding down the road, there should not be any transverse forces acting on the bike. It also means the frame flex phenomenon should only occur while leaned, and go away once upright. Is that true? Also, on a smooth road, would this flex manifest itself during a sweeping turn? Without impacts, it should not, right? Does the frame only flex under a considerable force (bump or edge), or does it flex under less force (smooth sweeping turn)?
I'm not a racer or anything, but my DR actual feels more stable in turns (smooth or rough) than my CBR 600...
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:18 PM   #71207
johnkol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
You sure have learned a lot since you bought your bike.
Going from not knowing what was wrong with it, to knowing it is frame flex.
Nah, from the first five seconds I stepped on a dirt road I knew that the problem was the same as on the XR, a very flexible frame. I was simply incredulous that something like that could be happening in this day and age, and wanted to verify my conclusions with some other knowldgeable people first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
And yet you still have stock suspension????
Yeah, why not? What is an upgraded suspension going to buy me? I won't enjoy the bike on dirt roads anyway because of the frame issues, so for asphalt the stock suspension is adequate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JagLite View Post
But you STILL have it!
Why is this a mystery? Once you accept the limitations of the bike, you adjust your expectations accordingly, and you enjoy the ride within that narrow envelope. I have had some great times on the DR!

I have also had some frustrating times on it, but this just means that I'm looking forward to the next bike with even greater anticipation.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:29 PM   #71208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyP View Post
I have to say John, I'm applauding your not losing patience as everyone tries to change your mind or offer suggestions, but I wonder why you're here. You've had the DR for a while, hate it, don't seem interested (to me anyway) in hearing suggestions about how you might be able to improve it, and are actively looking for a new bike. What are you hoping to get out of participating in this thread? To paraphrase your statement, it doesn't seem like you're here to learn anything new. Not trying to be a jerk, but as this goes on I'm becoming curious.
These are not unreasonable questions, but you are making some inferences that are not actually true.

First of all, I was never planning on saying anything about the frame flexes; I have known about this issue for a few months now, but I was not going to report any such finding in a forum dedicated to the DR lest it was construed as a troll. But I made an off-hand comment about the DR having fundamental flaws, someone asked that I elaborate on that statement... and the whole thing snowballed from there. Oh well, maybe some people got something useful out of this exchange.

But the problem in your rationale is that given my above position, you are conluding that I must hate the DR and cannot wait to get rid of it. These conlusions are simply not true.

Sure, the DR is not the bike that I was expecting (or merely hoping for), but it can still be useful within a more restricted usage -- and that's why I'm still here, basically for the same reason so many other participants are: to get tips on how to improve small aspects of the bike. No, I am not interested in throwing big money on the DR anymore, but there are other things that could be improved without any significant financial outlay.

I am also not planning on selling the DR in the near future. I am indeed actively looking for a couple of other bikes, but until I get them, evaluate them, and conclude that they serve my entire motorcycling spectrum, the DR stays with me.

Do things make more sense now?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:43 PM   #71209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
These are not unreasonable questions, but you are making some inferences that are not actually true.

First of all, I was never planning on saying anything about the frame flexes; I have known about this issue for a few months now, but I was not going to report any such finding in a forum dedicated to the DR lest it was construed as a troll. But I made an off-hand comment about the DR having fundamental flaws, someone asked that I elaborate on that statement... and the whole thing snowballed from there. Oh well, maybe some people got something useful out of this exchange.

But the problem in your rationale is that given my above position, you are conluding that I must hate the DR and cannot wait to get rid of it. These conlusions are simply not true.

Sure, the DR is not the bike that I was expecting (or merely hoping for), but it can still be useful within a more restricted usage -- and that's why I'm still here, basically for the same reason so many other participants are: to get tips on how to improve small aspects of the bike. No, I am not interested in throwing big money on the DR anymore, but there are other things that could be improved without any significant financial outlay.

I am also not planning on selling the DR in the near future. I am indeed actively looking for a couple of other bikes, but until I get them, evaluate them, and conclude that they serve my entire motorcycling spectrum, the DR stays with me.

Do things make more sense now?

Nope
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:19 AM   #71210
nsrrider
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Joined: Dec 2010
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There is one intangible that has not been discussed about modding a DR, or any motorcycle really. I love making a machine perform better and having one that is simply not another "latest-greatest" that anybody with the money can go buy. I like personalizing my motorcycle and having something unique. I know in the end it won't run with a KTM690 for instance but, it actually won't be THAT far off, will still do some things (even some important to me things) better than the KTM. The simple fact is, enthusiasts buy and ride a certain motorcycle for how it makes them feel (same for cars). If the DR does not make you feel good, you should move on to a a bike that does.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:31 AM   #71211
psmcd
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Mind's eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
Nah, from the first five seconds I stepped on a dirt road I knew that the problem was the same as on the XR, a very flexible frame. I was simply incredulous that something like that could be happening in this day and age, and wanted to verify my conclusions with some other knowldgeable people first.

Yeah, why not? What is an upgraded suspension going to buy me? I won't enjoy the bike on dirt roads anyway because of the frame issues, so for asphalt the stock suspension is adequate.

Why is this a mystery? Once you accept the limitations of the bike, you adjust your expectations accordingly, and you enjoy the ride within that narrow envelope. I have had some great times on the DR!

I have also had some frustrating times on it, but this just means that I'm looking forward to the next bike with even greater anticipation.
I haven't ridden my DR enough yet for the "familiarity breeds contempt" to kick in. But expectations differ. So far my unruly brain has remained in the surprised and grateful at how more than adequate the DR is for what it pretends and cost.

I first sought info on the forums to determine how I would approach suspension set-up. The stock DR is plush and capable enough for a light, very moderate rider. This became my first concern. Frame flex or not, stiffer, better damped suspension is a must for me (in terms of safety and tuning the bike to me). Rough pavement corners, washboard, deep gravel, ruts, off-camber bumps etc. all call for improved suspension. You can always slow down but that does not improve suspension performance - it just reduces the demands. Many sections are better ridden with a bit more speed or are better handled when you come in a bit too hot, if the suspension is set up properly. I know you know this. Perhaps when my bike is dialed in my mind will wander to the frame issue you have "framed." Damn you But I'll be ok. I'll rein in my brain.

I bet you do have a lot of great time on the DR and the focus of this thread masks it. Brains and "framing" with words are antithetical to the state we seek through riding. But I think we'll agree the bike is always secondary to the ride. Lick the envelope.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:40 AM   #71212
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelers View Post
I'm not a racer or anything, but my DR actual feels more stable in turns (smooth or rough) than my CBR 600...
Before someone tries to call BS on that statement, I also went from a sport bike (Ninja 650r) to this bike, and noticed that this does feel much more agile, especially in extremely tight turns where the wider bars give you some leverage. Can't wait to try my bike with supermoto wheels.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:09 AM   #71213
heirhead
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You have stepped into the TWILIGHT ZONE !!!!!!!!!
Or something else!!!!!!

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Old 11-17-2012, 08:16 AM   #71214
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
These are not unreasonable questions, but you are making some inferences that are not actually true.

First of all, I was never planning on saying anything about the frame flexes; I have known about this issue for a few months now, but I was not going to report any such finding in a forum dedicated to the DR lest it was construed as a troll. But I made an off-hand comment about the DR having fundamental flaws, someone asked that I elaborate on that statement... and the whole thing snowballed from there. Oh well, maybe some people got something useful out of this exchange.
imo, you are being more than a little bit disingenuous. you made an "off-hand" comment? here it is:
"The DR is such a fundamentally flawed bike that no major upgrade is justifiable for me..."


other comments:
"...if one is looking for a bike to connect with, to explore his and its limits, to feel one with the road and progress as a rider, then the DR fails miserably -- and, for me at least, no matter how many upgrades one carries out on the DR, it will still be a failure on that nebulous concept of being one with the bike.
"

"...I consider the DR the worst bike I have ever owned (probably ridden too)...", immediately followed by: "(it) does not mean that I have not enjoyed the trips I have taken with it. If one accepts its flaws and limitations, and simply treats it as a vehicle for exploring far away places and new locales, then the DR is as fine a machine as anything out there."

yes, i am sure folks on this forum got useful info out of this exchange:
- "johnkol's dr650 is defective."
- "johnkol is a bit off, as here is someone who thinks the dr is the worst bike he's ever ridden, can never be one w/the bike, yet can still say "...it can still be useful within a more restricted usage..." "...If one accepts its flaws and limitations, and simply treats it as a vehicle for exploring far away places and new locales, then the DR is as fine a machine as anything out there."
- johnkol in fact is a troll, his protestations notwithstanding, and he really has no desire to try to figure out what might be wrong w/his bike.
- "mental note - pay little attention to any info provided by johnkol."

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
But the problem in your rationale is that given my above position, you are conluding that I must hate the DR and cannot wait to get rid of it. These conlusions are simply not true.

Sure, the DR is not the bike that I was expecting (or merely hoping for), but it can still be useful within a more restricted usage -- and that's why I'm still here, basically for the same reason so many other participants are: to get tips on how to improve small aspects of the bike. No, I am not interested in throwing big money on the DR anymore, but there are other things that could be improved without any significant financial outlay.

I am also not planning on selling the DR in the near future. I am indeed actively looking for a couple of other bikes, but until I get them, evaluate them, and conclude that they serve my entire motorcycling spectrum, the DR stays with me.

Do things make more sense now?
do things make more sense now? yup, they sure do - you make no sense. and your dr650 has a serious issue that others' don't have, as the bikes are not "flexy flyers". and, for whatever reason, you aren't interested in getting to the bottom of your bike's problem. no one's loss but your own.

or, maybe, you're like that princess penelope who couldn't sleep cuz that li'l pea under her 19 mattresses was bothering her. or maybe you're like those "super-tasters", except you are exceedingly sensitive to motorcycle frame flex instead of food taste...

in any event, i do feel kinda bad for you - your stubbornness prevents you from getting to the bottom of the issue w/your dr, which could certainly be markedly improved and eliminate the problems you have encountered - either w/mods, or to fix the frame problem, which it likely has, if your bike is truly as you state. or, if you really are that sensitive, i feel bad that you have to suffer so much, never being able to be one w/this bike, while eeking out whatever enjoyment from it that you do get... in which case, the sooner you get rid of it, the better - for your own self, and for those of us on this board, that won't get sucked in to your trolling this thread.

doug s.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:23 AM   #71215
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
Before someone tries to call BS on that statement, I also went from a sport bike (Ninja 650r) to this bike, and noticed that this does feel much more agile, especially in extremely tight turns where the wider bars give you some leverage. Can't wait to try my bike with supermoto wheels.
i have not ridden a purpose-built motard, but i can tell you, you will not be disappointed - a 'tarded dr650 is a beautiful thing, you will be one w/the bike. unless of course, you are like princess johnkol/penelope..


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Old 11-17-2012, 08:33 AM   #71216
sandwash
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http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=728

Frame flex,i get it now

Alright I'll say it.Maybe you should of bought a KLR?
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sandwash screwed with this post 11-17-2012 at 08:41 AM
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:03 AM   #71217
P-P
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Looks like you're in Tonopah - Death Valley Is a bit SW from there :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
For anyone who's interested here's a link to the SPOT tracking page

http://share.findmespot.com/shared/f...jBGuarSOcaHZNc
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:04 AM   #71218
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
i have not ridden a purpose-built motard, but i can tell you, you will not be disappointed - a 'tarded dr650 is a beautiful thing, you will be one w/the bike. unless of course, you are like princess johnkol/penelope..


doug s.
I've got no real issue with my bike. I bet my highway cruising problems would go away if I just ran on a treadmill and lost some weight

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Old 11-17-2012, 09:41 AM   #71219
Ridin'nFishin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwash View Post
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=728

Frame flex,i get it now

Alright I'll say it.Maybe you should of bought a KLR?
Don't even get him started on the KLR, then I would have to tell him he don't know what the heck he is talking about, plan and simple.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:44 AM   #71220
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
I've got no real issue with my bike. I bet my highway cruising problems would go away if I just ran on a treadmill and lost some weight

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could be true; as my bike cruises yust fine at 80mph, and i weigh only ~155lbs.

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