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Old 11-17-2012, 09:15 AM   #31
MrFurious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster View Post
I am so sick of you fucks that act like you know everything! Have you riden my mother fucking bike? Do you even own this model? Have you done the mod? Then stay the fuck off my post! I have riden this bike and it does quite well for the pos it is! Any time you lower the back of the bike more than the front you change the geometry. It is not my mod that does this it is lowering in general. Maybe you would suggest foot implants for my wife or a dr200 that won't go 55 for her to be on the highway with. Would that be safer.
+100! Nothing like an arrogant, self-righteous, self-proclaimed internet-know-it-all sticking his/her nose into something they know little to nothing about, have zero first-hand experience with, and acting like they're a fucking expert.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:45 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by p0diabl0 View Post
MentalGuru must be the asshole who plasters warning stickers on every flat surface of new motorcycles.

Nope, just smart enough to know that a motorcycle needs to have more ground clearance then suspension travel. I thought that was common knowledge and is only common sense.

Apparently I have stumbled into an area that is serously need of some.

I'm not a sticker fan, I'm a bigger fan of natural selection thou.

Flame away... Prove me wrong if you think you can.

After reading this thread and seeing the responses I now understand the need for idiot/warning stickers. They are clearly for people that lack common sense(see above suspension lowering mod for an example).

MentalGuru screwed with this post 12-07-2012 at 06:17 PM
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFurious View Post
+100! Nothing like an arrogant, self-righteous, self-proclaimed internet-know-it-all sticking his/her nose into something they know little to nothing about, have zero first-hand experience with, and acting like they're a fucking expert.

Please put me on ignore so natural selection can run it's course. I think I may have messed with the balance of intellegence by posting grade school math.

Lets see... 9.4" of suspension travel - 8" of ground clearance = Fail...


Looks pretty simple to me...

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Old 11-19-2012, 06:52 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p0diabl0 View Post
MentalGuru must be the asshole who plasters warning stickers on every flat surface of new motorcycles.

I like you!
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:52 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFurious View Post
+100! Nothing like an arrogant, self-righteous, self-proclaimed internet-know-it-all sticking his/her nose into something they know little to nothing about, have zero first-hand experience with, and acting like they're a fucking expert.
I like you!
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:03 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ggamster View Post
Yes it does. However it is all the way backed off from the factory. No reducing the preload. Only increasing. I don't know what weight they want the bike to be set up for but with 190lbs on it I only get about 10% sag and none in the front.

Your suspension should have about 3" of rear sag and 2" up front. That would be combined static and race sag. Added to your fork drop like you have already done would work nice. Using a slighty shorter tire in the rear is about the most it can be safely lowered.

This would lower the bike rie height so reaching the ground while sitting is easier. It will also make the bike handle how Honda intended.

With a slight seat trim and the proper suspension adjustments/spring rates will net the same seat height with her onboard as your lowered suspension does without the ground clearance loss. Casing the bike under suspension compression is also eliminated by not lowering the suspension.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:40 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p0diabl0 View Post
MentalGuru must be the asshole who plasters warning stickers on every flat surface of new motorcycles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster View Post
I like you!
No, it's not me you like. He's talking about the guy that has the job putting the stickers on since some people lack common sense.

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Old 11-22-2012, 11:23 PM   #38
Carter Pewterschmidt
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Common Sense

This modification is a legitimate safety concern. Bottoming out a motorcycle can very well prove to be dangerous. No motorcycle manufacture would sell a bike with such suspension geometry due to this exact reason.

Although you may see the risk of this as slim the simple fact exists that you chose to perform this modification in the expense of your own wife's heath and safety to save yourself a very small sum of money. I'm not surprised that someone other than me would find that simply incomprehensible.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:35 AM   #39
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Kouba Link

My girlfriend bought a 250L and she's only 5-02. We installed Kouba Link on her bike (supposed to lower seat height 1.75 in) and cut about 3/4 inch of her side stand. She is able to touch well enough now, but it'd be nice to give her another inch. The seat has a lot of padding. Might look at shaving a little foam off the seat at some point in the future.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:15 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MEROST View Post
My girlfriend bought a 250L and she's only 5-02. We installed Kouba Link on her bike (supposed to lower seat height 1.75 in) and cut about 3/4 inch of her side stand. She is able to touch well enough now, but it'd be nice to give her another inch. The seat has a lot of padding. Might look at shaving a little foam off the seat at some point in the future.

Make sure suspension sag is adjusted correctly.

I would want to check ground clearance with the link in and no spring on the shock.

Unless it reduces rear wheel travel this will also decrease ground clearance to an unsafe amount.

I would check. It sucks to crash when you are the rider and did nothing wrong.


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Old 12-03-2012, 08:13 AM   #41
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This will be my last reply in relation to those that have no understanding of simple geometry.
First-There are many dirt bikes on the market today that have more travel than ground clearance (The 2012 Husky TXC310-TE310-TXC250-TE250) to name a few. Not to mention that many of the other manufactures maintain less than 15mm of ground clearance at full compression----------Heaven forbid there is a pebble.
Second-Because you lower the rear of a bike 2" doesn't mean that you lover the center of the bike two inches
Third- the combined average suspension travel on this bike is 9.1". The ground clearance at the center of the bike under the engine is 9" no where near the "2" of travel more than the ground clearance" the genius stated above
Fourth-Under no condition that this bike will ever see will the entire 9.1" of travel be used.

If that doesn't work for you I don't know what will. It isn't like I am selling this idea or product. I told you about how to do it. guess what everybody YOU DON'T HAVE TO! With that said. This is a free mod that works just fine with no negatives that are relevant.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:19 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by ggamster View Post
OK. Over the weekend I decided to attempt lowering of the new 2013 CRF250L. This is my wife's new bike and with an inseam of 27" her feet were about 2" off the ground. I had to do something or she wasn't going to ride it. The stock seat height is 34.75". so I lowered the forks all the way and rechecked finding 34.5" was the new seat height. This wasn't going to cut it so I looked for another way to do it. Then I saw this


As you can see. This is the bottom of the shock and there is ruffly 2.25" between the bottom of the shock and the mounting bolt. This is a greater distance than any other bike I have seen.

All we have to do is move the bolt hole up and you lower the bike. However with that said there is a magic number for this movement. I wanted to maintain the ability to return the bike to stock height therefore I would have to keep the stock mounting location. I also wanted to maintain the same distance from my new bolt hole to the edge of the next hole. so there was enough "meat" left on the shock so there wasn't a bending or tearing issue. That magic number was determined after some careful measuring and will be reviled latter.

Lets start the breakdown.
First put the bike up on a stand so the rear wheel is off of the ground.
Next put a strap on the rear wheel over the fender so that the strap is snug enough to hold the weight of the rear assembly.


Next remove the seat. Do this by removing the two long allen bolts on the back of the seat.

Now remove the side panels. There is one allen per side. This will give you access to the rear shock upper mount bolt. To access it you will have to take the rear brake fluid reservoir. Don't turn it over just take it loose and push it lower under the mount.


In this picture you see the reservoir and the upper shock mount.
Next disconnect the lower wish bone linkage.

Now disconnect the lower shock mount seen in this picture.

Now using the strap over the rear fender and connected to the rear wheel raise the rear wheel about five inches. Next remove this upper rear shock mount bolt.

When you take this loose you will have to have an open ended box wrench on the nut. Put some grease on the surface of the wrench. This will capture the lock nut and washer. Do this for install as well.
When this bolt is removed the rear shock can be dropped out the bottom.
Now for the easy part. The Magic Number 1-7/16" You need to center your hole on this measurement taken from the bottom of the shock.
Now drill this hole to match the existing hole size. Be sure you file off all burrs.
When done you should have this.
Now you you can reassemble in reverse order. Be sure you use blue Locktight where used from the factory. Which are the side panel bolts.
The result of your labor will be the following
You get the tire raised three inches and still maintains 8.25" tire to fender clearance so you will not bottom the tire out on the fender at full compression.

Whit this mod along with lowering the forks the static seat height is now 32.75" This is still a bit much for my wife with the 27" inseam. She can kind of get the balls of her feet on the ground. But it will have to work. I will be switching out the springs for lighter ones once they are available.
Next you will have to lower your kickstand. I took 1.5" off of mine. I would recommend 1.75" however. It just don't the the BMW lean I have become accustom to. This is also a good time to enlarge the foot as well.
Now just give it some paint.
The finished product of your labors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster View Post
yes, but...but... You would need to raise the front end as well and you can't well, not without some extensive machining. Also your angle on the drive train would be extreme. I would never do that. It would be a very bad idea. I could be done but the hurtles to over come would be extensive. Might I suggest getting the WR. It has a seat height fo about 37" actual. There is also the KLX If you want something at about 35.5" actual. I have both the WR and the CRF. If you are tall the CRF just feels way too cramped. IMHO. I can't ride it far until I'm wanting off.

One more thing...If you were to add an inch at the shock you would have close to a four inch raise of the rear tire. For example, my bolt hole was moved up the bracket by say...3/4" which moved the rear wheel closer to the rear fender 3.15" so keep that in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster View Post
There are no noticable negative effects. It feels just the same. If I were real picky I think the suspension may work a bit better on the small coppy stuff lowered due to the angle of the rear swing arm. It rides great.
original posts...
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:37 AM   #43
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster View Post
This will be my last reply in relation to those that have no understanding of simple geometry.
Talking about yourself again???


Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
First-There are many dirt bikes on the market today that have more travel than ground clearance (The 2012 Husky TXC310-TE310-TXC250-TE250) to name a few. Not to mention that many of the other manufactures maintain less than 15mm of ground clearance at full compression----------Heaven forbid there is a pebble.
Now you think your "parts bin bike" is a racing dirt bike???

They are dirtbikes that have skidplates and a suspension that can handle big air without bottoming out...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
Second-Because you lower the rear of a bike 2" doesn't mean that you lover the center of the bike two inches
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
The stock seat height is 34.75". so I lowered the forks all the way and rechecked finding 34.5" was the new seat height.

So this means you lowered the forks 1/2".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
For example, my bolt hole was moved up the bracket by say...3/4" which moved the rear wheel closer to the rear fender 3.15" so keep that in mind.

This would lower the seat height 1.5". The seat will have a slope toward the rear to about 2.75" lower in the back then stock due to the change in geometry.

1 1/2" + 1/2" = 2".... The amount I stated you lowered the bike.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
this mod along with lowering the forks the static seat height is now 32.75"

34.75"-32.75"= 2" lower

This happens to be how much you stated it lowered the bike...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
Third- the combined average suspension travel on this bike is 9.1". The ground clearance at the center of the bike under the engine is 9" no where near the "2" of travel more than the ground clearance" the genius stated above
Most sites show 9.4" front and 9.8" rear. That would be 9.6" average

Stock ground clearance is 10".

10" of ground clearance -2" of lowering = 8" of ground clearance.


If the front suspension bottoms out you've got .1" to spare since you only lowered it 1/2".

Since you lowered the rear 3"when you use 7" of travel you're out of ground clearance if the front suspension travels 9"


Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
You get the tire raised three inches and still maintains 8.25" tire to fender clearance so you will not bottom the tire out on the fender at full compression.


The tire only hits the fender 1.5" before it bottoms out!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
Fourth-Under no condition that this bike will ever see will the entire 9.1" of travel be used.
You think you are God and can control the future and all aspects of it... NOT!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ggamster
If that doesn't work for you I don't know what will. It isn't like I am selling this idea or product. I told you about how to do it. guess what everybody YOU DON'T HAVE TO! With that said. This is a free mod that works just fine with no negatives that are relevant.

It is your measurements that prove the errors you made.




See Update at end of page.

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Old 12-07-2012, 02:06 AM   #44
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I for one like this Lowering method....

This is a dangerous mod with multiple safety and simple geometry problems!!!



Don't do this mod!!! Injury can Result!!!

.[/QUOTE]

I and many others are riding with this Mod. In fact, many Shops are charging customers who do all types of riding for this Mod. I have searched and searched and have not found any injuries related to this mod. (doesn't mean it cannot happen), but it seems there is lots of flaming going on here and lots of SPECULATION about safety.

I for one, ride most on road and the Mod has been perfect for me. The bike handles better in my opinion for the type of riding that I do and I appreciate the original post and it seems many others do as well. I guess if folks start crashing and burning I can always go back to the original set up and move on.

When this Thread was started, there was no lowering kit that I could find and I saw CRF groups and lots of them had used this method to lower their CRF's with good results so I did it and have been happy with it.

I cannot understand the apparent "hatred" and "flaming" going on here! I do like debating and appreciate other opinions, but to call it a SAFETY HAZZARD without apparent proof is a little much.

In all fairness to the Guru, I will say this.....if someone does get hurt because of the original thread.....the Lawyers will be coming for you!!!
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:56 AM   #45
MentalGuru
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Originally Posted by gregitt View Post
I and many others are riding with this Mod. In fact, many Shops are charging customers who do all types of riding for this Mod. I have searched and searched and have not found any injuries related to this mod. (doesn't mean it cannot happen), but it seems there is lots of flaming going on here and lots of SPECULATION about safety.

I for one, ride most on road and the Mod has been perfect for me. The bike handles better in my opinion for the type of riding that I do and I appreciate the original post and it seems many others do as well. I guess if folks start crashing and burning I can always go back to the original set up and move on.

When this Thread was started, there was no lowering kit that I could find and I saw CRF groups and lots of them had used this method to lower their CRF's with good results so I did it and have been happy with it.

I cannot understand the apparent "hatred" and "flaming" going on here! I do like debating and appreciate other opinions, but to call it a SAFETY HAZZARD without apparent proof is a little much.

In all fairness to the Guru, I will say this.....if someone does get hurt because of the original thread.....the Lawyers will be coming for you!!!

Let the lawyers come after me. Right... The only reason they might come for me is to strengthen the injury case they would be working on.

Why don't you try and get a new shifter lever from Honda. GHround clearance is an issue they are on back order.

If you can't understand the basic principles of suspension design and the ground clearance that is needed safe operation why respond?

Whatever, I guess natural selection will just run it's course.

Good luck with that.

.

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