How to get proof of ownership for a bike w/no title

[Fred_Garvin]

I see the Vermont DMV cashed my check, so looks like I'm getting a new plate shortly :)

[motomike14]

Originally Posted by Mollybro

Here's my situation:

I live in FL. I had a title, but it was lost before I registered the bike, which is a 1981 CB750C. I have tried contacting the previous owners for a Bill of Sale (they moved), but I have a friend that said he'd draw one up for me if they couldn't.

Now, will this VT trick work in my case? What all do I need? Thanks and sorry in advance.

Just in case, run the vin through theirs and Florida system. If you are good there, then yes, you'll be good.

On the Vermont DMV site, they actually have a bill of sale template. This is what I used; I had a similar issue after I bought a bike on a whim and didn't really get a good bill of sale, so, had a friend of mine sign it as the "seller" (this is no different than using broadway title or any other similar company).

Two things; make sure you fill in the correct amount to send (sales tax on the sale OR sales tax for lowest retail value by the book, look it up). And, make sure all the papers are signed in the right spots.

I've had a Vermont tag on a vintage bike for 8 months now, and no issues. I haven't tried to transfer it to Florida, though. Not sure how their DMV system will deal with a bike with a current out of state registration, but no physical "title."

[amedina88xx]

Hey everyone,

New to this board,new to riding in general. I went with my gut a month ago and purchased a 2005 Kawi ex250 off of Craigslist. The owner was decent and open about the bike issues. He handed me a title that was not in his name but the
previous owner. It wasn't until my relative messed up the odometer reading on the back that I had to seek out the previous owner for a duplicate title. I am dieing to get on this bike.

So Upon searching I see this somewhat active thread about the Vermont loophole.
I went through every page and need to know some things specific to a newer bike.
Also keep in mind, I live in NJ and purchased the bike from NY(Ny title)

Will I need to get a vin verification? (I am not allowed to drive without a plate , and can not move the bike from my property)

Can I just send the bill of sale and the original title (which the original owner and myself signed)?

I can not get in touch with the original owner and I am puzzled on how to get this thing on the road.
any help will be appreciated.

The vin is clean, the title is not acceptable in NJ due to the error on the odometer reading, but it clearly states the ownership and transfer of.

[luniz7]

Originally Posted by Mollybro

Here's my situation:

I live in FL. I had a title, but it was lost before I registered the bike, which is a 1981 CB750C. I have tried contacting the previous owners for a Bill of Sale (they moved), but I have a friend that said he'd draw one up for me if they couldn't.

Now, will this VT trick work in my case? What all do I need? Thanks and sorry in advance.

Probably wont work because technically the bike is still titled in the dudes name in the system. So therefore by law its still his...

[luniz7]

People that keep asking about under 500cc's I cant really help you out. You will have to read the vermont dmv website for directions. As for over 500cc's here is the steps I took.

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....4&postcount=72

[amedina88xx]

Ok, regardless of whether anyone knows if I need the Vin verification to get the registration ,

how am I supposed to get a vin verification when I can't ride the bike to the DMV (without plates) in NJ?

Will my bike be seized for not being registered or plated on the road?

I am worried my insurance, and title(with error on back) will not be enough.

thanks in advance

[luniz7]

Originally Posted by amedina88xx

Ok, regardless of whether anyone knows if I need the Vin verification to get the registration ,

how am I supposed to get a vin verification when I can't ride the bike to the DMV (without plates) in NJ?

Will my bike be seized for not being registered or plated on the road?

I am worried my insurance, and title(with error on back) will not be enough.

thanks in advance

I would haul it there in the back of a pickup
The bike will not be seized.
You dont even need insurance or the title to get a Vin verification.

[der_saeufer]

OK people, read the Vermont DMV's instructions.

There are three rules in play here: bikes under 300cc are never titled, nothing 15+ years old is titled, but bikes over 500cc require a VIN verification even if they're not titled.

This leads to four possibilities:

1) bike under 300cc: not titled in VT, regardless of age. No VIN verification required, no title required. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. An EX250 fits into this category regardless of age. You are reading this correctly: even a brand new EX250/CRF250L/etc. in Vermont is not titled.

2) bike >300cc but <500cc and 15+ years old: no title, no VIN verification. Send bill of sale, complete application and fees, get registration and license plate. This small category would apply to a 1976 KZ400, for example.

3) bike >500cc and 15+ years old: no title, but VIN verification required. Send bill of sale, complete application, VIN verification form and fees, get registration and license plate. Exception: if you have a VT registration for this bike in any previous owner's name, the VIN verification is waived. For this purpose, the previous registration can be expired. You do have to submit a copy in lieu of the VIN verification. A 1981 CB750 fits into this category.

4) bike >300cc and 0-14 years old: these bikes are titled in Vermont. You'll need a title to get anywhere if your machine fits this category, and if you have the title, you can probably go through your own state. Should you choose to title in Vermont anyway, you'll need a VIN verification in addition to the properly endorsed title from the seller.

Just in case anyone is wondering, for cars there are only two possibilities: either it's 15+ years old or it's not. Cars 15+ years old never need a VIN verification; that special requirement is only for motorcycles. Cars 0-14 years old are titled.

Also worth noting is that Vermont has started to bust people trying to register dirt bikes. If your bike was not originally manufactured for street use, prepare to be asked to show that the bike is street legal. They go by the VIN, so factory dualsports won't be an issue since they've always been street bikes in the eyes of USDOT.

Tax: Sales tax is based on the purchase price or NADA's New England price guide, whichever is higher. DMV will give book values over the phone. In my experience, whether they check the book value is hit or miss; they seem more likely to check on mailed applications than ones submitted in person. If you want to fight over the value, the appraisal has to be done by a Vermont licensed dealer, so if you're not close to Vermont, you're essentially left to pay up or shut up. Per ride4321 below, the minimum value for tax purposes is now $500, so you pay tax on $500 ($30 at the current 6%) if you paid less for the bike.

Inspection: Vermont does not suspend registrations for lack of an inspection certificate like Mass (and possibly NY?) does. If you ride in Vermont on Vermont plates without an inspection sticker, you can be cited. If you ride in a state without safety inspection, you're good to go. If you ride in a state other than Vermont that does have safety inspection, check your local laws. I believe NH and Maine have specific reciprocity with Vermont and could (in theory) cite you; in other states I have no idea--we don't have that shit out West and I don't live in Mass anymore.

Insurance: This is between you, your insurance company, and any cop that happens to stop you. Vermont does not use an insurance database to suspend registrations of uninsured vehicles like a substantial number of states do. Riding without insurance is illegal in 45+ states (including Vermont), though, so going without is an extremely bad idea. Get insurance. Your insurance company doesn't care where the bike is tagged.

Over and above all of this, it's generally illegal for a resident of a state to register his vehicles elsewhere. If you get stopped by your local gendarme with Vermont plates and can't talk your way out of the ticket for not registering your bike in your state, don't come crying to me about it. Check those light bulbs, people!

ETA: if you live close enough to Vermont to visit one of their DMV offices, just do that. They can do VIN checks there, and they hand plates over the counter. I've done two bikes, one by mail and one in person. I also registered a car by mail and then transferred those plates in person to a different car after some stupid Masshole flattened the first car. Every one of those vehicles was later registered in another state (Colorado for both bikes and the flattened car, Mass for the replacement car) with minimal hassle.

[ride4321]

Sent my application in a few weeks ago for a 84 Honda Elite. Just checked my bank acct and they cashed the check today. Should have my plate in a few days. One thing, there's a $500 minimum purchase price for tax purposes so even if you only paid $100 for the bike you owe $30 minimum in taxes. I had my application returned because of this.

[thedrewski86]

Originally Posted by der_saeufer

3) bike >500cc and 15+ years old: no title, but VIN verification required. Send bill of sale, complete application, VIN verification form and fees, get registration and license plate. Exception: if you have a VT registration for this bike in any previous owner's name, the VIN verification is waived. For this purpose, the previous registration can be expired. You do have to submit a copy in lieu of the VIN verification. A 1981 CB750 fits into this category.

My 1975 CB550 fits in this category. I'm filling out the registration application and I will get the VIN verification for it. Obviously I'm doing this because I don't have a title but I have a bill of sale from the PO (he never had a title either). Indiana requires a title to register a vehicle so after I get the plate and registration from Vermont they also send me a title right?? I've read through this so many times I'm getting confused but I thought that was the entire point.

Also I was just going to use the Vermont plate for a year but I don't want to deal with cops so I'm just going to get my state registration as soon as I can.

[der_saeufer]

Originally Posted by thedrewski86

Indiana requires a title to register a vehicle so after I get the plate and registration from Vermont they also send me a title right?? I've read through this so many times I'm getting confused but I thought that was the entire point.

Also I was just going to use the Vermont plate for a year but I don't want to deal with cops so I'm just going to get my state registration as soon as I can.

Vermont does not title vehicles over 15 years old. Your Vermont registration in your name is the only proof of ownership available to you under Vermont law. Other states know this (though they may have to look it up, since non-titled vehicles in the US are unique to New England) and will issue a title based on a valid Vermont registration when there's no change of ownership.

[der_saeufer]

Originally Posted by ride4321

Sent my application in a few weeks ago for a 84 Honda Elite. Just checked my bank acct and they cashed the check today. Should have my plate in a few days. One thing, there's a $500 minimum purchase price for tax purposes so even if you only paid $100 for the bike you owe $30 minimum in taxes. I had my application returned because of this.

This is new. Thanks for pointing it out; I added it to my long post above.

[Turbo Ghost]

Quick question. On the Vermont bill of sale form there is a space for "body type". What would you list a 1983 Virago as? Would it be a cruiser or simply motorcycle? Thanks!

[jbc]

Originally Posted by Turbo Ghost

Quick question. On the Vermont bill of sale form there is a space for "body type". What would you list a 1983 Virago as? Would it be a cruiser or simply motorcycle? Thanks!

Just "motorcycle"

[Turbo Ghost]

Thanks!