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Old 11-18-2012, 10:49 PM   #16
Eddieb OP
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Bugger, I went to strip down the 2nd fork leg tonight and the screw and cartridge are just spinning so I can't get it undone.

I guess next step is to take it into somewhere with a rattle gun and get them to try it, any other suggestions?
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:31 PM   #17
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there is probably a holding tool to keep the cartridge unit from spinning.
hit the nut with an air gun and it will spin faster than the internals and come off.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
hit the nut with an air gun and it will spin faster than the internals and come off.
Come off as in undo, or come off as in shear?
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:40 AM   #19
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I guess next step is to take it into somewhere with a rattle gun and get them to try it, any other suggestions?
Impact driver.
Cock the cartridge to the side to create a little extra friction on the inside bits.
Put the spring and fork cap back on to hold the cartridge for you.
Use jerky movements on the spanner/socket to simulate the impact driver.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:20 AM   #20
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This is a good mod for the DR350 also. 1994 and later DR350 wheels will bolt right up, the brake caliper is a bit different on the 94-97 models but it may fit and the brake rotor diameter is the same size.

I have a 99 DR350 and a 2001 DRZ250 and have verified it on mine. I have a 1991 spare wheel, I needed to change the bearings and center spacer in it to fit my 99 or the DRZ250.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:42 AM   #21
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Potentially stupid question, but is there a big enough difference between the DRZ250 forks and DR650 forks with Gold Valves and springs installed?

Rob
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:58 AM   #22
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Potentially stupid question, but is there a big enough difference between the DRZ250 forks and DR650 forks with Gold Valves and springs installed?

Rob
Are the modded DR650 forks adjustable for compression and rebound damping? The DRZ250 forks are.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:55 AM   #23
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Ok, based on the reply I received above, stock DR-650 forks are damper-rod forks with progressively wound springs.

Racetech "Gold" valves are upgrades to a cartridge fork suspension. You can't add Gold Valves to a damper-rod fork. You add Gold Valve Emulators - but they are still damper rod forks. Based on my understanding, emulators and intiminators (sp?) have slightly different characteristics, but either (both) take the damper-rod applications about as far as they can go.

Based on my understanding (and marketing / sales pitches aside), cartridge forks are generally better than damper-rod forks (but not always - on some less expensive street bikes, for example) - and Gold Valves are usually an upgrade unless your stock forks are very high-end.

So, in general, the progression goes: stock damper-rods, damper-rods with emulators, stock cartridges, cartridges with after-market (e.g. Racetech "Gold") valves.

There will be some overlap, and grey areas, depending on what you are starting with. Going from the stock DR-650 damper-rod forks to a DRZ-250 cartridge fork, sprung for your weight and valved for your application, is a big two steps up, based on my understanding to date. Suspension dynamics is a very complex subject, and while I'm an engineer, I'm no expert. Hence, I'm always willing to learn. If any of the above sounds flat-out wrong to those of you who know suspensions, please chime in and educate all of us!
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddieb View Post
Come off as in undo, or come off as in shear?
as in undo. an air gun spins the bolt out faster than can the fork innards spin.
yes if you put the spring & cap back in that might enough friction to all hold the cartridge in place.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Potentially stupid question, but is there a big enough difference between the DRZ250 forks and DR650 forks with Gold Valves and springs installed?

Rob
maybe not but you're thinking of emulators on the DR forks (or intiminators)
the DRZ advantage is there are external adjusters.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Potentially stupid question, but is there a big enough difference between the DRZ250 forks and DR650 forks with Gold Valves and springs installed?

Rob
The Gold Valve only works on the compression dampening on the DR650 forks. If you want to change the rebound dampening you have to change fork oil weight or drill out and/or weld closed the rebound hole in the damper rod.

DRZ250 forks allow for externally adjustable rebound and compression and the ability to shuffle shims to change the dampening, rebound and compression.

Makes me wonder...............Could the DRZ250 cartridges be installed into the DR650 forks???????? Ebay here i come.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:22 AM   #27
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Quote:
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DRZ250 forks allow for externally adjustable rebound and compression and the ability to shuffle shims to change the dampening, rebound and compression.

Makes me wonder...............Could the DRZ250 cartridges be installed into the DR650 forks???????? Ebay here i come.
So I popped into my local dealer tonight and they copied the exploded diagram for the DRZ250 forks out of their documentation.

Interestingly they don't show any sort of adjustable shim stacks and according to their book the diagram shows everything in the forks, nothing comes apart any further than is shown.

I also asked them to find out the price of part 16, as the adjuster screw is stuck in both my fork legs and I may not be able to get them unstuck. There was no price on file as that part has never been imported here individually by Suzuki NZ.

Sorry for the crap pic, I don't have a scanner.
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Eddieb screwed with this post 11-21-2012 at 01:35 AM
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:32 AM   #28
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Aren't shim stacks for Cartridge forks? DR650's are damper-rod forks. That's the whole point of this thread. You don't fit cartridges inside; you replace them with cartridge forks from the DRZ-250. Or am I missing something?
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:02 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Aren't shim stacks for Cartridge forks? DR650's are damper-rod forks. That's the whole point of this thread. You don't fit cartridges inside; you replace them with cartridge forks from the DRZ-250. Or am I missing something?
I'm doing a full replacement, removing the DR650 forks and fitting DRZ250 forks. The pic above supplied by my dealer of the DRZ250 internals doesn't show what I expected to see in terms of shim stacks.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:48 AM   #30
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DRZ250 forks on DR650

Hello Eddieb. I did this mod to my DR650 about 18 months ago and although it is good I am not sure I would bother again.

I used a supermotard disk kit that allowed me to use the 250 wheel and a 320mm disk and caliper reloating bracket. There are issues with the "floating disk button" circlips not being suitable for highway use and I overcame this by making cupped aluminium washers and countersunk screws to guarantee that the circlips could not come loose.

The other thing I did (that may not have been necessary) was to machine the mudguard lugs off the bottom of the triple clamp and redrill and tap the mudguard mounting holes so the guard is 15mm higher than standard. I did this because the 250 forks have 20mm more travel than the 650 forks and I did not want the tyre to jam under the guard on full compression when using a full knobby tyre. It was not very difficult to mount the steering stem in my lathe and do the machining so I did it just to be sure.
Happy to compare notes on what you did and how well it works. I had my forks resprung and revalved to suit and it definitley is better than stock forks but now that I have done it I would recommend people just use gold valves, 10 weight oil and correct weight springs to suit their riding. I did 7000 kilometres with well set up standard forks like this before doing the 250 fork mod so I have a good comparison.
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