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Old 11-14-2012, 12:18 AM   #1
angelo_balto OP
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KTM 250 vs 450 exc

Hello!

I am trying to decide if I should go two or four stroke for my enduro bike. The two contenders are the KTM 250 EXC and the KTM 450 EXC - two virtually identical bikes (except the way the motor behaves).
As an everyday bike I am using a 1200 Adv, so I am not interested into which of these two bikes is a better "adventure bike". For a 5-10 day adventure ride cross country, I'll just use my beemer!

I am planing to use the KTM as a Rally Raid racer (for with the 450 is better) but I am interested into enduro as well & I was told that driving & maintaining a two stroke like the 250 is way better for enduro riding.
Some enduro riders do not like the way the four-stroke engine is braking them on downhills.
As for their weight, that is only 8 kgs of difference.

Any thoughts on two vs four strokes?
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:20 AM   #2
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A new 250 KTM 2 stroke can weigh 216 lbs or less with out the E-starter,a new 450 is closer to 255 lbs so theres a little weight difference. Top speed is way better with the 4 stroke,rally riding would say 4 stroke.

I would say to buy both.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:37 AM   #3
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Are you buying new or used? My personal pick of KTM in new bikes would be a 300XC without a doubt. I like linkage and the 6 spd has enough ratios I don't need a W model. The 300 has lots of torque and a smoother power delivery than the 250. As far as used I like the 08 and newer chassis much better, the newest ones are better still. The smoker is lower maintenance as well. This coming from a guy with a 450 thumper.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:53 AM   #4
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Owner of both, and if I could only have one it would be the 450 on account of it's versatility. There are a lot of things it does better than the 250, and everything else it still does pretty good.
It will do walking speed to 90mph max or 65mph cruise on the same set of sprockets. The 250 (2009 5 speed) will max out around 70-75, and it doesn't really have a comfortable cruising speed above 40 mph.

The 250 feels a lot lighter on tight trails or tough hills in the woods, but the 450 still gets through just using more energy.

The electric start on the 450 works. The starter on the 250 might work. Out of four E-start KTM two-strokes that my friends and I own, mine has the only starter that works consistently, and even then only when the motor is warm.

The 450 will probably get 1.5 to 2 times better range on the same amount of gas.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:26 PM   #5
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I am buying a used one (2-3 years old) and E-start is VERY important for me. As for the extra effort that is needed from the extra pounds of the 450, I don't think that it would trouble me much.

Another option would be the Husabeg 450 (2011 model). Rode it two weeks ago and loved it. Haven't tried the KTM yet, shouldn't be much different.

A friend of mine - ex enduro racer - is trying to convince me to go for the two-stroke 300 ... he said that it's a lot easier to do trails with it and that (with modifications) it could compete in Rally Raid.

ps. I just love the Husky looks ...
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:39 PM   #6
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Fuel consumption could be a consideration as well.

Any weight savings from the two stroke could be taken up by the extra fuel you would have to carry in a rallye.

My old 200EXC was using 10l/100k, most of my fourstrokes have use about 6l/100k.

That is the only reason I got rid of it.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:20 PM   #7
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From riding 2-strokes going waaaaay back.. most are partial to them in how they ride in more technical terrain and how easy they are to maintain. They feel more snappy and lighter.

That said, they do use more fuel and you have to mix oil in the fuel. And they are a little more finicky with jetting.

Electric starters were universally installed on strokers because they are notoriously difficult to start. A smoker will fire with a half-hearted kick and they bump start easily.

For here in CA the smokers are red-sticker which can bother a lot of folks due to riding areas they are closed out of. A stroker will be plated, can go anywhere.

For lighter riders the 200 makes a super nimble bike, and are still favored for competition in the light classes and tough courses. Check out how they do in enduroX.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:25 AM   #8
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2 stroke for tight trail,hands down,every 4 stroke Ive taken on truly tight snotty trails turns out to be too top heavy,gets hot,blows its water out,and when they do go down end over end into a ravine..............who among us has the raw extra energy to dead lift a 280 lb (with gas,tools,heavy tubes,protective parts) out of said ravine? My 300 will grunt it's way up anything I point it at,especially with the auto clutch.

I dont see anybody racing/riding 2 strokes in Rally's anywhere,different horses for different courses.
Buy both.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:24 AM   #9
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Interesting comments re: the fuel consumption. My 2003 200EXC consistently used less fuel than mates on 450 and 525 EXCs when trail riding. Under cross-country race conditions, it uses less fuel than just about anything else, by a significant margin (although of course you use more fuel if you're going faster ). Trail-ridden or raced, the 640 uses up near the 9L/100km mark, which is again more than the 200.

The nimble 2T is much easier and quicker through the trees, until you have surprise sharp snotty uphills as well, and then the grunt of the 4T is very nice.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:34 AM   #10
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My fuel consumption was calculated on fast gravel/tar, probably not the best place for a 200 two stroke.

Now that you mention it, it did seem to use bugger all out trail riding.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browneye View Post

For lighter riders the 200 makes a super nimble bike, and are still favored for competition in the light classes and tough courses. Check out how they do in enduroX.
I forgot to mention that i am not a "light" rider ... I am 6 foot tall & 210 pounds heavy
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo_balto View Post
I forgot to mention that i am not a "light" rider ... I am 6 foot tall & 210 pounds heavy
A 200 is still a 37 hp bike,you would be amazed at how well a "little" 200 will grunt it;s way up a steep hill with a big boy on it. I weighed 195 with out gear and rode a 200,never occurred to me that it didnt make enough torque or HP. Wasnt a concern.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post
My fuel consumption was calculated on fast gravel/tar, probably not the best place for a 200 two stroke.
Beach racing the 200 it used quite a bit - in the end I stopped trying to calculate how much and just prayed I wouldn't run out before the end of the day's racing. After the first practice I had to double my expected usage; I think I went through 10L in 24km = 40 L/100km Certainly guzzles a bit more fuel on the pipe constantly at max throttle/max power.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:07 AM   #14
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Are you buying new or used? My personal pick of KTM in new bikes would be a 300XC without a doubt.

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Old 11-19-2012, 05:53 AM   #15
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The 450 is pretty light for a four stroke. But I can quite literally carry my 200. It is like cheating on trails. It isn't real happy flat out on roads and fast trails. But you would play hell even keeping it in sight on point and shoot tight woods riding.

If you want versatility go 450. If you want to show people your tail light on a tough enduro then it is hands down two stroke. As for electric start, a must for me on a four stroke but I could care less on a two stroke. I don't sweat the 200 despite two ankle surgeries.
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