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Old 11-18-2012, 04:05 PM   #71266
Skidmarkart
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Location: Durham NC, The Old Durty
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Just wanted to say -

I did a overnight pine-sol soak and carb cleaning (and got all the stuff to do a rebuild, didn't need any of it) per several suggestions, thanks Er-07s-2, and others for the copious help. Nothing was wrong except a clogged pilot. Cleaned it out (along with everything else) and bike runs like it was brand new. Amazing what a little speck-o-dirt can do. Ill be adding a gas filter ASAP. Though I didn't do anything except clean, I am glad I took on the project. I feel a lot better about fixing my carb (or hot-rodding it) on my own now that I have fully disassembled and cleaned and reassembled successfully. Thanks to everyone who suggested it (it really wasn't bad, I have never touched the carb on any of my bikes before) and the kind fellow who wrote the BST-40 Bible.

Oh, and it does work better with beer. Just go slow and a follow the directions!
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:49 PM   #71267
SteelJM1
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Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Tucson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
That sounds like your problem. It compresses in a controlled, damped manner when hitting, then SPROING...the spring unloads. A Cogent shock, or any shock with rebound damping, shouldn't do this when adjusted correctly. Heavier oil in the stock shock can add a bit of rebound damping, but then the oil tends to overheat easier and leads to fade in prolonged bouts with rough terrain. You want valving that is just firm enough, yet allows viscosity light enough that it flows well without easily overheating/fading. Preferences can also differ.
Well shoot. Looks like another rebuild in that case.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:46 PM   #71268
SteelJM1
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Er... looking at it, it doesnt seem to be a cogent rebuild.. just stock. I coulda sworn..
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:40 AM   #71269
johnkol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmcd View Post
At 195lbs I have no way of knowing what the bike feels like to you but my 2011 has very little compression damping (though so far I've tried to avoid sharp impacts and refrained from bashing anything ) with stock fork oil (5w). Sounds to me like yours has heavier fork oil or too much oil. Have you ever checked/changed it?
The stock fork oil is 10w, not 5w, but that's irrelevant.

What's relevant in this discussion is the difference between the stock damping characteristics of compression and rebound: the DR has too much of the former and too little of the latter, so if you change to a lighter oil to make compression damping softer, then you have no rebound damping, and if you switch to heavier oil in order to get some rebound damping, then compression damping is too harsh.

The only way to fix this imbalance is to open the forks and either drill out the compression damping orifices, or partially block the rebound damping ones. Of course the chance of getting it right on first attempt is minimal, so that means that one has to do this iteratively -- and for me this is simply not worth the trouble given all the other problems I have with the bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmcd View Post
If you're riding bumps so fast you're getting airborne stalls and you don't think you can benefit from/appreciate the bike more with suspension improvements no one here will be able to help you. [...]
If you haven't thoroughly examined the steering head bearings and races, wheel bearings and axles, and the swing arm bearings and shaft, your analysis is without foundation. Finally, or firstly, what tire pressure do you run and have you ever run different tires on the same bike?
Suspension damping problems, steering head bearings, wheel bearings and axles, swingarm bearings, rubber-mounted pegs and bars... all these potential problems have unique signatures, and they in turn are distinct from frame flexes -- and I can tell the difference between them.

The orginal Bridgetones were replaced at 7k with Shinkos 705. Tyre pressures are either 22/25 for street or 10/13 for dirt.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:57 AM   #71270
psmcd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkol View Post
The stock fork oil is 10w, not 5w, but that's irrelevant.

What's relevant in this discussion is the difference between the stock damping characteristics of compression and rebound: the DR has too much of the former and too little of the latter, so if you change to a lighter oil to make compression damping softer, then you have no rebound damping, and if you switch to heavier oil in order to get some rebound damping, then compression damping is too harsh.

The only way to fix this imbalance is to open the forks and either drill out the compression damping orifices, or partially block the rebound damping ones. Of course the chance of getting it right on first attempt is minimal, so that means that one has to do this iteratively -- and for me this is simply not worth the trouble given all the other problems I have with the bike.


Suspension damping problems, steering head bearings, wheel bearings and axles, swingarm bearings, rubber-mounted pegs and bars... all these potential problems have unique signatures, and they in turn are distinct from frame flexes -- and I can tell the difference between them.

The orginal Bridgetones were replaced at 7k with Shinkos 705. Tyre pressures are either 22/25 for street or 10/13 for dirt.
Stock fork oil might be 5 or 10 depending on what you read but it appears you have no idea what's in yours or how much. The unique signature apparent here is too much, and too rigid thinking with too little wrenching/actual looking. Sort of like oil weight and compression/rebound behavior. I'm all for just ride it, but not without actually knowing the cause when you suspect a problem.

It also appears you have not dismantled and inspected any bearings/shafts. We can probably rule out tires if the bike behaves similarly with Shinkos or Bridgestones. You seem a very methodical thinker but I see no evidence of methodical inspection. Unique signatures and "discernment" do not preclude verification.

Did you ever consider your head is now too big for your neck? As you age and spend more time sitting, the neck/noggin ratio diminishes, skewing everything you think you know.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:52 AM   #71271
Mambo Dave
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Location: 11 ft. AMSL
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Not that this means anything to anyone, but I find my DR particularly sluggish and questionable in handling when down near the recommended tire pressures. I run Shinko 705's and well, but my front in in the higher 20's (like 28?), and my rear low 30's. Obviously I air down if I'm off road.

I don't know what the effect of these pressures will be on the 705's, but I just can't go back to low 20's on the front (rear doesn't matter I guess, I could probably run it in the mid 20's and not care), especially not without having to pump a little more air into the front far too often just t keep it from getting really bad feeling.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:17 AM   #71272
neo1piv014
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Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Not that this means anything to anyone, but I find my DR particularly sluggish and questionable in handling when down near the recommended tire pressures. I run Shinko 705's and well, but my front in in the higher 20's (like 28?), and my rear low 30's. Obviously I air down if I'm off road.

I don't know what the effect of these pressures will be on the 705's, but I just can't go back to low 20's on the front (rear doesn't matter I guess, I could probably run it in the mid 20's and not care), especially not without having to pump a little more air into the front far too often just t keep it from getting really bad feeling.
I run mine 28/30 and they haven't given me any grief yet. If you pump them up to street tire pressures, they handle dang good on the road, and I don't even bother airing them down when I go off road. You'd be surprised how little off road ability they lose when you don't air them down.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:02 AM   #71273
Mambo Dave
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Location: 11 ft. AMSL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
I run mine 28/30 and they haven't given me any grief yet. If you pump them up to street tire pressures, they handle dang good on the road, and I don't even bother airing them down when I go off road. You'd be surprised how little off road ability they lose when you don't air them down.
Just glad to hear I wasn't the only one going to the crazy end of pressures compared to what so many recommend, lol. Thanks.

By the way, is that an acerbis front fender (if so, which?) and higher bars on your bike? I'm thinking about trying a higher rise set of bars.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:03 AM   #71274
Rob.G
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Location: Fulltiming in an RV!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
I run mine 28/30 and they haven't given me any grief yet. If you pump them up to street tire pressures, they handle dang good on the road, and I don't even bother airing them down when I go off road. You'd be surprised how little off road ability they lose when you don't air them down.
I run mine at 26/28 so I'm pretty close. If I carry a lot of stuff, I go up to 28/30. But like you, I don't air down either unless it gets soft (e.g. sandy).

I'm still working on wearing out my Shinko 700's so I can switch to my fresh set of 705's on my spare wheelset. Then I'll put some T63's on the current wheelset to save for super-gnarly stuff that doesn't get attacked by my KLX250S.

Rob
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:06 AM   #71275
Ridin'nFishin
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
I run mine 28/30 and they haven't given me any grief yet. If you pump them up to street tire pressures, they handle dang good on the road, and I don't even bother airing them down when I go off road. You'd be surprised how little off road ability they lose when you don't air them down.
+1

But, I think we all know that nothing that has been of anykind of help to John. He doen't listen or even attempt to take into consideration that his problem may be something besides his so called frame flex. All he has done is replyed to you when you try to help him in a way to discount what you have written. He said he can tell the difference.

I think we should all say goodbye to John and let him go and if we are lucky he will unload his pos bike and never post on this thread again. I have followed this thread off and on for a few years and again just the other day and got to see his first post about his frame flex. His writing of this so called flex makes no sence at all, I don't care how good he writes. His writing has added nothing to help anyone who has a DR650 or is looking to buy one. Would be nice if the mods would just delete every post dealing with him and his bike in this thread. Including this one.

Besides. I just picked a 2001 DR650 yesterday and I am willing to learn from you guys, I am sure I will have some more questions. I know motorcycles, but never rode a DR until yesterday and I'm sure I have a learning curve, but I like it. I need to do some thinks to it to make it as comfortable as my KLR. Should not be too much of a problem, all I need is a custom seat by me and some ape hanger handle bars, I mean risers. Then ride it and make a choice on which to keep, my KLR or DR. I hope the DR because I am wanting the simplisity of the DR, air cooled. I think it is a great bike and looking forward to riding.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:33 AM   #71276
Steve in Santa Fe
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High Mileage?

Greetings all,

I am looking at a 2005 DR 650 that has 24,000 miles. (Mostly highway as a commuter).
The guy has full records and the bike looks well cared for.

Question: IS 24K high mileage for a DR 650 engine that has been maintained?
(I have an old BMW Boxer, where 24K is barely broken in, so my thinking may be off.

Thanks,
Steve
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:18 AM   #71277
planemanx15
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Location: Long Island, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Santa Fe View Post
Greetings all,

I am looking at a 2005 DR 650 that has 24,000 miles. (Mostly highway as a commuter).
The guy has full records and the bike looks well cared for.

Question: IS 24K high mileage for a DR 650 engine that has been maintained?
(I have an old BMW Boxer, where 24K is barely broken in, so my thinking may be off.

Thanks,
Steve

Not at all. I have 28,XXX bought it with 20,000 and thought that might be high. Just change the fluids (oil) and check the valves. You could also check the fork and shock oil, new brake fluid, and check the jetting if its been messed with. Change the plugs and air filter and it will run fine.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:41 AM   #71278
neo1piv014
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Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Just glad to hear I wasn't the only one going to the crazy end of pressures compared to what so many recommend, lol. Thanks.

By the way, is that an acerbis front fender (if so, which?) and higher bars on your bike? I'm thinking about trying a higher rise set of bars.
I believe this is the acerbis front fender. I haven't seen a stock one in person, but I believe the PO said he changed mine out. It's not bad, but if you catch a crosswind on the highway, you'll feel it in the bars.

The bars are Protaper 7/8 bars with the Henry/Reed bend. They were on there when I got the bike, and I believe they're on some kind of bar risers. Not having a stock bike to compare to makes it very difficult to judge just what made a different or even what originally came on the bike lol. I like the 7/8 bars over the fat bar type bars because I use that 1/2" cross bar to mount my RAM mount stuff. Very handy.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:44 AM   #71279
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
I run mine at 26/28 so I'm pretty close. If I carry a lot of stuff, I go up to 28/30. But like you, I don't air down either unless it gets soft (e.g. sandy).

I'm still working on wearing out my Shinko 700's so I can switch to my fresh set of 705's on my spare wheelset. Then I'll put some T63's on the current wheelset to save for super-gnarly stuff that doesn't get attacked by my KLX250S.

Rob
I've found that once it gets sandy/soft, my 705's are so out of their league that I just need to push the poor bike out and try another route. I'm probably going to get a sumo set and then keep the 21/17 stock tires around to run D606's or T63's. How are you liking the 700's?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:56 AM   #71280
opium89
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Location: Hutto, Texas
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Ring Nut Wrench

Inmates,


I need to get my hands on a 09917-23711 ring nut socket by next Friday. Son is flying in to town to help with a full rebuild and cannot locate this tool anywhere. Will be happy to purchase used if you have one you're no longer using, or would even be happy to rent it from you if you'll take a deposit + shipping from me for the trouble. Please get in touch if you have it.

By the by, anyone know the actual diamter of the socket? It's not the same part number as the ring nut on the steering head. If I can size it, I might be able to find a generic version elsewhere.

Thanks!
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