ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Face plant
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #1
ItalianRider OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey
Oddometer: 20
What am I doing wrong??

So ... I "crashed" my F700 again.

The first time was a month ago, when I was doing a tight right hand turn and lowsided. I leaned too hard and was going too fast and the rear wheel lost grip and I slid down the highway ramp for a good 200 feet or so.

I dislocated my arm, my bike's front fork got twisted, lots of little spots of damage here and there.

Today I crashed again. I was doing a left turn on a busy street and people coming from the opposite lane stopped to let me go.

I got the bike going as always, then I stalled it while leaned and down I went.

Not really crashed at high speed this time. It was lower speed and also now I got the engine guard, hand guards, etc.

Bike is fine and I fell on the left side. So the bike is basically looking like nothing happened. Same for me. Other than a bruised ego and a sore left leg.

But my most serious question is: WTF am I doing wrong??

I had a Speed Triple for a year. That's a liter sport bike. I have done some stupid, insane shit on my Triple and other than dropping it in a parking lot at a standstill because my side stand wasn't fully down, I never got into an accident with it.

I never dropped it "in motion".

This bike it's the second time in 2 months, and I got it 2 months ago ...

Seriously ... is it that the F700 falls more easily? Unlikely scenario

Is it that I suck and I just got lucky after 6000 miles of crazy shit on the Speed Triple?

I mean I rode the Triple like I stole it and nothing bad ever happened to it.

I am extra, extra careful with this one and today, without any justification or excuses, I screwed up and dropped it in a turn that should have been totally safe and fine and that I have done a million times on other bikes.

The F700 doesn't like me or my inner squid is coming out.

Or maybe the Triple was more stable than the F700 and was able to forgive the fact that I am not a good rider at all ...

Not quite sure what to think at this point.
ItalianRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:15 PM   #2
EggChaser
Studly Adventurer
 
EggChaser's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Hamsphire/Surrey Borders
Oddometer: 536
Could it be different rubber and tyre profile?
EggChaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:34 PM   #3
ItalianRider OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey
Oddometer: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by EggChaser View Post
Could it be different rubber and tyre profile?
Could be.

I mean: Speed Triple = liter bike, 135+ horses, 190/55 rear tire, low center of gravity, immense amounts of low RPM torque

F700 = 800 cc bike, 75 horses, 140/80 rear tire, high center of gravity not to mention I have side and rear bag on it (and I carry stuff in it), and somewhat regular torque curve

So if you look at the specs, yeah they are really different.

If you just look at them side by side in a parking lot ... yeah they are TOTALLY different.

But are they so different that I can't manage the F700 safely at all?

And most importantly ... why? I would have thought that transitioning from a liter bike to an enduro would be easier ... not harder.

I always "felt" the Triple. I always knew what the bike was doing.

This one I don't feel at all.

I switched type of bike because I needed something more practical and with more utility than the Triple.

But I have to say ... I miss my Triple now.

I feel like I was dating a british porn-star and my family made me dump her in favor of a german "good girl" because the porn star was not good enough for me.

But I feel that the british porn star truly loved me ... and the german "good girl" turned into a psychopathic b!tch ...

Or maybe I'm just venting because I'm frustrated because I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
ItalianRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:44 PM   #4
cybrdyke
In the Dark
 
cybrdyke's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: way back up in the woods among the evergreens
Oddometer: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalianRider View Post

I leaned too hard.....
????? Maybe look into this....
cybrdyke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #5
Grainbelt
marginal adventurer
 
Grainbelt's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Minnyhappiness
Oddometer: 26,916
If you stalled it, and you aren't getting a good feel from the controls, perhaps look into some nice adjustable levers. Check your throttle and clutch cables for binding, and adjust the free play to your liking. Adjust the rear brake and shift lever to your preference.

Those things all tend to go unnoticed and are usually left at whatever adjustment they were delivered at from the assembly schmuck at the dealer.

It seems unlikely that you're suddenly a hamfisted putz, but if you're not getting along with the bike, the above are easy to adjust or replace to get that loving feeling back.
Grainbelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 04:35 PM   #6
serialcee
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Amsterdam, Lowlands
Oddometer: 33
I user to own a R1150r, like the triple. A street oriented bike. I took a F700 out for a testdrive and all I could think about was how unstable the big front wheel felt. Didn't buy it and was bummed that i didnt' like it...
__________________
1 week, 4 Beemers, 9 countries

serialcee screwed with this post 11-20-2012 at 01:08 AM
serialcee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 04:42 PM   #7
catweasel67
Still a B.A.N
 
catweasel67's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Vienna, Austria
Oddometer: 8,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalianRider View Post
So ... I "crashed" my F700 again.

I had a Speed Triple for a year. That's a liter sport bike. I have done some stupid, insane shit on my Triple and other than dropping it in a parking lot at a standstill because my side stand wasn't fully down, I never got into an accident with it.

Seriously ... is it that the F700 falls more easily? Unlikely scenario

Is it that I suck and I just got lucky after 6000 miles of crazy shit on the Speed Triple?

I mean I rode the Triple like I stole it and nothing bad ever happened to it.

I am extra, extra careful with this one and today, without any justification or excuses, I screwed up and dropped it in a turn that should have been totally safe and fine and that I have done a million times on other bikes.

The F700 doesn't like me or my inner squid is coming out.

Or maybe the Triple was more stable than the F700 and was able to forgive the fact that I am not a good rider at all ...

Not quite sure what to think at this point.
I'm a conservativer rider, middle aged - so cue self righteous preaching.. you have been warned..

If you do "crazy shit" you are, in the end, going to crash.
If you expect the round every corner successfully just because you did it OK yesterday, you are, in the end, going to crash.
If you ride a motorbike, you are, in the end, going to crash.

I don't know what your background is, if you've had any meaningful training, but maybe you'd benefit from a track day? or half a day's advanced training?

or simply riding your new bike like you didn't steal it until you get to know it a bit better.

I didn't expect my VF to handle like my bro's Kat, or my Goose to turn like my GS425.

ps: I assume the bike is safe to ride? tyre pressure? brakes? suspension? etc etc - tyre pressure is the one most often ignored
__________________
Planning NA 2010 NA 2010
Adriatic Loop August 09 Mandello Guzzi Protest Sept 09
"I've got the key to the gates of paradise...but I've got too many legs!!" Jeff
Guns don't kill people, people kill people but people with guns manage to kill more people than people without.
catweasel67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 04:50 PM   #8
High Country Herb
Adventure Connoiseur
 
High Country Herb's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Western Sierras
Oddometer: 7,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalianRider View Post
But I feel that the british porn star truly loved me ... and the german "good girl" turned into a psychopathic b!tch ...
Can I make this my new tag line? Sounds like my love life, except I'm happy with my German psycho...


Back to the tipping problem. I have to go with cybrdyke on this one. In both accident descriptions, I picture the bike leaned over so far that the front wheel is turned sharply. When this happens, the rear wheel is pushing against a pretty strong resistance, and will either break traction or stall the motor.

You may want to keep the bike upright in slow corners, until you are more familiar with it's cornering characteristics. This way if you stall or break traction, you just pull in the clutch and coast until things are back in balance.
High Country Herb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:22 PM   #9
ItalianRider OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey
Oddometer: 20
While applying ice to my sore left leg I read your post and ponder ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
I'm a conservativer rider, middle aged - so cue self righteous preaching.. you have been warned..

I'm "old" as well (40s) and ugly as sin ...

If you do "crazy shit" you are, in the end, going to crash. Crazy shit means going a bit faster than the speed limit in isolated country roads. So if the speed limit for a turn says 45 I'm doing 55... that's the extent of my crazy shit. With this bike, I need to stay WAY below the speed limit or it feels like it wants to wash out (PS: it's got 2000 miles now, so the tires are broken in).
If you expect the round every corner successfully just because you did it OK yesterday, you are, in the end, going to crash. But I didn't crash!!! (on the Triple)
If you ride a motorbike, you are, in the end, going to crash. But I didn't crash!!! (on the Triple)

I don't know what your background is, if you've had any meaningful training, but maybe you'd benefit from a track day? or half a day's advanced training? But I did all that!! I went for advanced training, I took the MSF course again with my bike (on the Triple) and took the "police officer" course where they make you practice extreme maneuvers at low speeds (on the Triple).

or simply riding your new bike like you didn't steal it until you get to know it a bit better. But I'm not riding this bike like I stole it ... I did that on the Triple!!

I didn't expect my VF to handle like my bro's Kat, or my Goose to turn like my GS425.

ps: I assume the bike is safe to ride? tyre pressure? brakes? suspension? etc etc - tyre pressure is the one most often ignored
Herein might lie the problem.

Maybe my problem is not the bike but arrogance?

Maybe I was arrogant in assuming that if I mastered the Triple I could master the F700 without effort? Maybe I was arrogant in assuming that since I tamed the Triple I can simply straddle the F700 and the bike would bow to me and recognize me as her undisputed master?

Maybe I am NOT safe on that bike until I re-run all the training I ran through with the Triple (high speed maneuvering training, low speed maneuvering training, MSF re-do with your own bike, etc ... I did it all ... with the Triple).

It's time to change my ice on my leg ... and my ego ... be back later.
ItalianRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:27 PM   #10
ItalianRider OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey
Oddometer: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Country Herb View Post
Can I make this my new tag line? Sounds like my love life, except I'm happy with my German psycho...


Back to the tipping problem. I have to go with cybrdyke on this one. In both accident descriptions, I picture the bike leaned over so far that the front wheel is turned sharply. When this happens, the rear wheel is pushing against a pretty strong resistance, and will either break traction or stall the motor.

You may want to keep the bike upright in slow corners, until you are more familiar with it's cornering characteristics. This way if you stall or break traction, you just pull in the clutch and coast until things are back in balance.
That's what might have happened in the first accident. In fact, THANK YOU for this description as it sounds very plausible.

Also that's what I'm doing right now ... however today's accident is a bit different. It was simply a safe (traffic completely stopped on all sides), slow left turn from a stop.

And the engine, as it has done MANY MANY times in the last couple of months died on me.

I have never had the Triple engine die on me.

Do I need to keep this engine revved to 4~5k? With the triple just 2000 RPMs were sufficient to make the bike rocket out of a black hole.

With this bike I stall it like there's no tomorrow in the most inane and simple of situations.

This is an honest to god, request for advice: how do you guys make your ADV bikes NOT stall? Do you give a lot of gas? Do you rev it up to 4k? 5k? Mine is stalling 2-3 times a day. Not making this up. Never had this problem with the triple ...
ItalianRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:34 PM   #11
5Chord
No Short-Term Memory
 
5Chord's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Westchester, NY
Oddometer: 1,037
I had this bike as a loaner back in '09 (it was the F650 then) and loved it. I found it very stable and even managed to keep on two wheels during a sphincter-puckering black-ice indcident I was pretty bummed to give it back but I had it for 6 weeks...they forgot about me

Anyway, not to be judgmental, but have you had any formal training? MSF basic rider class? I took mine after I got my licence and I'm sure it saved my life at least a few times.

Also a class in off-road riding will allow you to feel the wheels slide in a safe(er) more controlled environment and learn how to stay upright.

Just my 2cents, ride safe
__________________
Mr Tod's Wild Rides
5Chord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:39 PM   #12
ItalianRider OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey
Oddometer: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Chord View Post
have you had any formal training? MSF basic rider class?
Yes:

1 - MSF class to take my license. Didn't pass every test but earn my license on the first try
2 - MSF class again just to ace it. Couldn't tolerate the fact that I wasn't perfect the first time.
3 - MSF class again, only the version where they allow you to use your own bike (Speed Triple)
4 - Advanced MSF class targeted towards emergency manouvers
5 - High Speed cornering class
6 - Low speed cornering class (this was the hardest and by far it was pure torture ... it's similar to the police officers course you can find on youtube ... more than a few people dropped their bike. I didn't).

All the above were done with my old bike (the Speed Triple) and every single one of them done within the last 12 months.
ItalianRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:44 PM   #13
High Country Herb
Adventure Connoiseur
 
High Country Herb's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Western Sierras
Oddometer: 7,773
Your comments support my theory.

The two bikes have quite different sized front tires, correct? When you turn the handlebars on the Triple, the tire swings to the side. Now think about how much farther the front tire swings with a larger diameter front tire; causing it to dig into the pavement and halt your progress. Police training encourages this type of cornering because officers may have to execute a U-turn in a very small space, but turning the front wheel too sharply is like putting on the front brake. Not good if you are leaned way over at the time.




Edit: So the bike is stalling a lot. I think manufacturers tend to gear the "adventure" bikes a little too high, in an attemp to make them more highway worthy. My Aprilia was the same way, and seemed to be lugging away from a stop. Adding 2 teeth to the rear sprocket can help, and can often be done without changing the chain.
High Country Herb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:51 PM   #14
5Chord
No Short-Term Memory
 
5Chord's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Westchester, NY
Oddometer: 1,037
Well it could just be this bike is just not for you, especially if you still don't feel comfortable on it. There could be an EFI issue there as well. I'd certainly bring it up to the guys that service your bike.

Good luck and keep it shiny side up
__________________
Mr Tod's Wild Rides
5Chord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #15
ItalianRider OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey
Oddometer: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Country Herb View Post
Your comments support my theory.

The two bikes have quite different sized front tires, correct? When you turn the handlebars on the Triple, the tire swings to the side. Now think about how much farther the front tire swings with a larger diameter front tire; causing it to dig into the pavement and halt your progress. Police training encourages this type of cornering because officers may have to execute a U-turn in a very small space, but turning the front wheel too sharply is like putting on the front brake. Not good if you are leaned way over at the time.
Again, a very good point.

Yes, the front tire is bigger on the F700 and narrower. Also the rake angle is larger on the F700 (the Triple's forks are angled closer to the vertical in other words).

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Country Herb View Post
Edit: So the bike is stalling a lot. I think manufacturers tend to gear the "adventure" bikes a little too high, in an attemp to make them more highway worthy. My Aprilia was the same way, and seemed to be lugging away from a stop. Adding 2 teeth to the rear sprocket can help, and can often be done without changing the chain.
Again ... another good point. The first gear feels really anemic compared to the Triple. The F700 has plenty of bite up top but in the low end and low gears it's just not pulling enough in my opinion. I'm struggling with low end power and either the engine stalls or it just doesn't give me enough bite.

Couple everything we said with the fact that I went through a lot of painful training with my Triple but a big fat zero with this bike ... and also let's not forget my aforementioned bout of arrogance, and we might have an explanation why I got so well acquainted with the asphalt lately.

The handling characteristics of the bike is something I need to learn to respect.

The engine power being wimpy in first gear and at low speeds and the constant stalling is something else.

I'll take it back to the dealer and see what they can suggest about that.
ItalianRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014