Dealing with dealers.....

[TrashCan]

Originally Posted by spafxer

Not at all..

Cost of the bike + large tank + hand gaurds + a few other things = $$$ I write one check or how much in cash..

I thought a "shop" worked together to get the sale.. Even though they are different departments, they scratch each other's backs.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Aftermarket is always a profit center.

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by TrashCan

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Aftermarket is always a profit center.

True enough in the main, but I have always gotten a significant discount on the after market stuff I buy with the bike. Very often this includes ride gear, race or comfort parts, and specialty tools.

[wb57]

Nitpicking: doc fees are set in stone at any particular dealership, according to what I've read on a handful of car buying sites. If they charge Buyer A $300 in doc fees, they have to charge EVERY customer the same amount by law. This varies state to state. Of course, how this affects the OTD price is all part of the negotiation and exactly why I only deal in OTD numbers. Like others here have said, how they get to that number doesn't interest me at all.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/wh...d-you-pay.html

[surly357]

I don't know what brand you're shopping for but I've had 'no bs' experiences with the Yamaha dealer in Ft Collins, the Kawi dealership in Loveland, Steamboat Powersports (not front range, obviously), Vickery in Denver, and dealers in SE Wyoming. I haven't purchased from all, but have gotten straight answers and solid numbers.

You don't hear it much these days, but in other parts of the state the phrase "A Denver deal" used to be synonymous with getting ripped off...

I try to be businesslike on my end as well, I know exactly what I want before I call or email. I look for a combination of good deal/good vibe.

And FWIW, in Colorado you will pay taxes based on your residence when you eventually go to the county clerk's office for your plates. If it's an OHV buying location will make a difference since it's just like buying a toaster or something...

[DAKEZ]

Find a dealership you like and support them.

[outdoornate65]

Thanks guys for all the feedback....it has been very helpful. I like the idea of an OTD offer and then letting the dealer twist/fudge the number to suit their finance office.

In the RV world, it's understood that you should pay around 70% of the asking price for any new camper/5th-wheel.

Buying a new car: We have cool sites like Edmunds that tell us what the invoice price of a car is and what others in the area have paid.

Motorcycles....not so much help available (it seems). Which is why I turned to you folks to help me sort out a stategy for this pending bike purchase.

I'm not in a position to pay cash for the bike but I do have funds arranged from a local CU and will not be trading anything, so I look at it as a fairly simple deal.

What I don't want to is get ass-raped by the dealer with a bunch of hidden fees I should not have paid.
I understand they are trying to make a living...nothing wrong with that. I just don't plan to be the patsy for dealer shenanigans.

Thanks again....you guys rock!!

Nate (the noob)

[klaviator]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

Find a dealership you like and support them.

+1

Price isn't everything. The best dealers don't always have the best price but they won't play games with hidden fees and they will support you down the road if you have problems. Finding the good dealers isn't always easy but when I find a good dealer I will support them.

[Pantah]

I'll add one other thought. I know buying negotiable products is an emotional transaction more most of us. However, I have never known myself to feel I paid too much.

My last purchase was a tough buy. The word was a limited supply would be imported and only for deposited buyers. I was willing to pay whatever it cost to get what might be my last motorcycle. I was fearful I might not get one at all. Worse, none of my dealer friends could access the bike. So I had to find a dealer with an allocation from KTM of their new 690R.

I called all the dealers within 300 miles of Boston. Only one offered me a price. I bought it on the spot, but it took several more weeks to get the bike because I was bumped to the 2nd wave of imports. On the phone they shaved the dealer prep and a couple hundred more off of MSRP. No free first service, though. Of course, that wasn't an issue because they knew I wasn't going that far for a first service. Anyway, I never even thought of that stuff. I just wanted my share of the 2012 allocations.

Razee Motorcycle in RI. Mega dealer (BMW, Duc, KTM, Yam, Goose and a couple others), but family owned for 50 years! Great race shop too. I just wish they were not 1.5 hours away!

[sailah]

I bought my first new motorcycle ever last year. I walked in, spoke to the owner, felt the price was fair, it was heavily discounted from husqvarna, paid and left.

Nine months later I was in a fight with the manufacturer over a lemon bike and the dealer was very helpful in getting me a new bike when my warranty was long expired.

Sometimes getting every last cent out of the deal isn't the smartest thing to do if you feel you might ever need them in the future.

With cars I'm much more aggressive. I feel bikes are an emotional buy and I'm buying the dealer as much as the bike. I go hang out at the bike shop and they all know me first name. Cars I could care less, I'm not hanging out at a dealer unless I have to.

I walk in, know what I'm going to pay already. I sit down with the first guy who walks up to me. I say lets go to your office. I explain I really don't like negotiating and I also am not interested in fucking around. You have the car, I want it, you want to sell it to me. I don't ned rust proofing, I don't need an extended warranty. I want you to go speak to your manager and make this deal happen and make me be the hero.

That took 30 seconds. I'm usually filling out paper work in five. I have better things to do than negotiate free floor mats or an oil change.

Btw, my company pays me to negotiate so don't believe anything I just said actually works

[PT Rider]

Lots of good advice, especially from RedShark. Keep in mind that one thing cannot be negotiated. There must be at least two things. What is more important to you and the other thing more important to the other party? When buying a vehicle, the only two things are usually the price and your readiness to walk out the door. If you aren't willing to walk, and they know it, then you can't negotiate. You can ask, you can beg, but you have no leverage unless you're willing to walk. Yes, support a dealer that will support you, but let them know that there are limits.

In many cases the dealership gets a kickback on the financing. You don't have to tell them how you'll pay for it until you're ready to sign. If it'll be a cash deal (including outside financing), just keep quiet. You might get a better price if they're counting on the financing kickback.

Check every line on the contract before you sign. Be sure that the purchase price is exactly what you negotiated. Refuse to pay any fees except the tax & title required by law. EVERYTHING else is negotiable. (Twice I've seen car dealers print a contract with the purchase price higher than the agreed upon price. I've had a car dealer try to charge me for the business tax. I've seen a car dealer try to charge a gap insurance where there was no need--33% down payment.) If you finance without a very substantial down payment, be sure to buy gap insurance, but it might be cheaper from your insurance carrier. (Gap insurance covers the gap between the retail value of your totaled used-but-nearly-new bike and what you still owe on it.)

A so-called extended warranty is not a warranty. It is a prepaid repair contract. You have much more protection under federal law for a real warranty than you do under contract law for these 'Protection Plans." If you want this peace of mind insurance, as said above, check around, check on line, and negotiate hard for the best price. The price you pay covers a commission to the salesman, a profit to the dealership, profit to the underwriter, and maybe something left over for repairs. Some are from an outside outfit. For example, Suzuki's Extended Protection Plan, labeled "Suzuki" and sold through Suzuki dealerships, is actually from an outfit called Cornerstone United. Read the protection plan contract and follow whatever it requires.

[Pantah]

The main purpose of telling them you are an immediate cash buyer is to let them know you are not tire kicking and that you are ready to close a deal immediately. Commission sales people don't really care about financing incentives or extended warranty sales. They care about closing a sale during their pay period.

But like I said before, I try and do business with dealers I like and just look for a fair price. I'll be back and want their support continued.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by outdoornate65

So I've been shopping around the local dealerships for my next bike (have only bought one new bike in the past) and I'm getting pretty frustrated with the dealer BS.

How is it that there are such varied numbers when it comes to dealer "costs"?

For example:

One local dealer quoted me a decent price for a 2012 bike I'm considering and said their dealer costs were $109.

I went to another dealer, still here in Denver, and he wouldn't quote me a price and wanted over $600 in "dealer costs"!! WTF??

So for those of you that have been around the block a few times, what should I "reasonably" expect to pay in fees and what sort of mark-downs from MSRP should I be looking for on left-over 2012 models? Talking about a $6000 bike....not some $17,000 KTM.

Thanks,

Nate

It all depends on what the customer wants to hear...

Some dealers have low listed prices they jack up with various "costs". Others will give you a real number without jacking up.

Example: When I was selling about four years back, we had a copy of a customer's sales receipt from a Michigan dealer who sold him his CBR for $8000 versus our $9200. The final difference in OTD price? $3 less than we were. Yep THREE BUCKS. He got to travel five hours around 200 miles one way then back for $3!

Do you honestly care about anything other that what the bike will cost you out the door?

By the way, be careful if buying out of state, you may get a lower price because they may not be charging you the sales tax and some title fees you may have to pay when transferring title in your state. I think dealers are supposed to do all the title work to get you or the bank a title in your state, but I'm not sure of that.

Key thing to remeber -

1. How much is the OTD figure - the price you will actually be paying including all taxes and fees, including financing costs. A buyer is a dumbass if they let any other number sway their decision. .
2. How much is it worth to buy at the dealer of your choice should they not be the lowest priced? I know I am willing to pay a few hundred more to deal with a local dealer that I know and in which I have confidence. I make them my last stop when shopping for anything they may sell. (They now deal with guns and I got the lowest price I found on the rifle I wanted without telling them the pricing I found on line. I simply asked what they wanted for the rifle - they were $15 less than anything I found, no shipping adding only sales tax.)

[ragtoplvr]

I once had a dealer beg me to fiance a new car even though I had the cash. Promised no early payment penalty in the loan.

So I had them draw up the papers, buy me a coke and let me sit down and read them Sure enough, while no early payment penalty, I still had to pay ALL the interest. Very careful wording to hide that, took me over 1/2 hour to find it.

I got out my check book. wrote out a check for the amount we had agreed, said take it or leave it. I had a friend that worked there, they knew that. He said the sales manager came up to him with a check, and asked if I could do that. Mike smiled and said oh yea. The sales manager said why do we not know him. Mike said he is frugal, well he probably said tight ass but you get the picture.. He told them they were lucky I was there at all.

They ended up taking the check. Last new car I ever bought. It was a lemon.

Rod

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr

I once had a dealer beg me to fiance a new car even though I had the cash. Promised no early payment penalty in the loan.

So I had them draw up the papers, buy me a coke and let me sit down and read them Sure enough, while no early payment penalty, I still had to pay ALL the interest. Very careful wording to hide that, took me over 1/2 hour to find it.

I got out my check book. wrote out a check for the amount we had agreed, said take it or leave it. I had a friend that worked there, they knew that. He said the sales manager came up to him with a check, and asked if I could do that. Mike smiled and said oh yea. The sales manager said why do we not know him. Mike said he is frugal, well he probably said tight ass but you get the picture.. He told them they were lucky I was there at all.

They ended up taking the check. Last new car I ever bought. It was a lemon.

Rod

I did that once in the 80's. I made a deal based on financing and then paid it off after the first month. It was a TransAm. No pre-pay fortunately, but I never actually looked like you did. I could have been a real dumbass. On the other hand, they have usery laws so the pre-pay couldn't be that big for 20 or 30 days of financing.

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by markk53

Key thing to remeber -

1. How much is the OTD figure - the price you will actually be paying including all taxes and fees, including financing costs. A buyer is a dumbass if they let any other number sway their decision. .

So Markk53 - In the states that I have lived, the tax and registration are paid to the state when you register the vehicle. If I buy out of state (which I did for one bike this year), the dealer charged me the state fees, but gave me a form for our RMV. The RMV took it as issued me a plate.

To my way of thinking, OTD is pre-tax and registration since the state fees are the same no matter where you buy it.