The All New 2013 LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

[Deans BMW]

Originally Posted by milo

I thought they are sourced from a company who builds transmissions for Honda?

More likely, this is the case.

[DannyZRC]

AFAIK Honda does pretty much everything in house.

Honda automatic transmissions in cars are quite different to conventional automatics, they do their own PGM-FI instead of buying it from bosch etc etc etc. I think they worked with someone a little on SH-AWD, but even that was primarily honda with outside eng. consultation.

Since the new GS's gearbox is inside the engine cases, surely it's built in house by BMW. Maybe they outsource the gears, but I imagine they make many of the parts and certainly perform all the shimming/assembly into the engine case.

[Gezerbike]

I'm not sure about that. I have a 2007 K 1200GT in my garage and word is that its' transmission was / is made by Gertag, and I beleive that was confirmed by a BMW Service Manager. Which brings up a point that I have not come across in all the speculation I have been reading here. Looking at the new GS, it's driveline is now on the opposite side of the bike as comparred to all previous GS's, but the same as the newer GT's. And when you consider that the new Boxer has a stacked transmission, and wet clutch, just as the KGT's, it becomes obvious, to me at least, that BMW has incorporated some of the technology that went into the develomement of the new K series of bikes. And as an owner of numerous BMW's over the years, from Airheads to Brick K's and both generations of Oilheads, if my GT is any example, there are going to alot of post from new owners about how these bikes shift as comparred to the old models. I like to consider myself pretty good on my BMW's, with smooth being the operative word, and it has taken me almost a year to get pretty " smooth " when it comes to running thru the gearbox. However, if my presumptions are accurate, at least new owners of the new GS will have had the slant 4 K bikes, and their owners, as Beta testers.

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by Gezerbike

I'm not sure about that. I have a 2007 K 1200GT in my garage and word is that its' transmission was / is made by Gertag, and I beleive that was confirmed by a BMW Service Manager. Which brings up a point that I have not come across in all the speculation I have been reading here. Looking at the new GS, it's driveline is now on the opposite side of the bike as comparred to all previous GS's, but the same as the newer GT's. And when you consider that the new Boxer has a stacked transmission, and wet clutch, just as the KGT's, it becomes obvious, to me at least, that BMW has incorporated some of the technology that went into the develomement of the new K series of bikes. And as an owner of numerous BMW's over the years, from Airheads to Brick K's and both generations of Oilheads, if my GT is any example, there are going to alot of post from new owners about how these bikes shift as comparred to the old models. I like to consider myself pretty good on my BMW's, with smooth being the operative word, and it has taken me almost a year to get pretty " smooth " when it comes to running thru the gearbox. However, if my presumptions are accurate, at least new owners of the new GS will have had the slant 4 K bikes, and their owners, as Beta testers.

So are you saying the K bikes shift more smoothly than boxers? I'm not clear.

[Beemerlover]

Originally Posted by DannyZRC

AFAIK Honda does pretty much everything in house.

Honda automatic transmissions in cars are quite different to conventional automatics, they do their own PGM-FI instead of buying it from bosch etc etc etc. I think they worked with someone a little on SH-AWD, but even that was primarily honda with outside eng. consultation.

Since the new GS's gearbox is inside the engine cases, surely it's built in house by BMW. Maybe they outsource the gears, but I imagine they make many of the parts and certainly perform all the shimming/assembly into the engine case.

From what I've heard and been told by dealers and techs, BMW doesn't really manufacture anything substantial in house. They design & spec the parts and assemble them in house, but other companies actually produce the parts.

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by Beemerlover

From what I've heard and been told by dealers and techs, BMW doesn't really manufacture anything substantial in house. They design & spec the parts and assemble them in house, but other companies actually produce the parts.

They make most of the engines...not the F series though.

[TuonoBiker]

Originally Posted by Beemerlover

From what I've heard and been told by dealers and techs, BMW doesn't really manufacture anything substantial in house. They design & spec the parts and assemble them in house, but other companies actually produce the parts.

Doesnt this describe the vast majority of auto and bike manufacturing? I guess engine and drivetrain could be a tossup...well, more drivetrain. My guess is most mfgs produce their own engines.

[dmac57]

They're bound to build more than Aprilia, and that doesn't keep Apes from being good bikes.

[Gezerbike]

Originally Posted by EJ_92606

So are you saying the K bikes shift more smoothly than boxers? I'm not clear.

No, just the opposite.

[RichBMW]

I went with some friends to the bike show yesterday, and spent a while looking at the new GS. Compared to the outgoing model, it seems more solid and purposeful. The pictures don't do it enough justice. BMW has spent a lot of time on the important things, and although I obviously haven't ridden it, I think this bike will be a corker.

The side stand and centre stand are more rugged, the screen adjuster is a fantastic idea, and should have been thought of years ago. The new display is much better. There are lots of buttons, but shouldn't take too long to get used to. The cross spoke wheels have a Matt finish which looks good. Overall, BMW has hit the nail on the head with this new bike IMO.

It's gonna be a long 3 months

[Nyuscdjs]

Originally Posted by RichBMW

I went with some friends to the bike show yesterday, and spent a while looking at the new GS. Compared to the outgoing model, it seems more solid and purposeful. The pictures don't do it enough justice. BMW has spent a lot of time on the important things, and although I obviously haven't ridden it, I think this bike will be a corker.

The side stand and centre stand are more rugged, the screen adjuster is a fantastic idea, and should have been thought of years ago. The new display is much better. There are lots of buttons, but shouldn't take too long to get used to. The cross spoke wheels have a Matt finish which looks good. Overall, BMW has hit the nail on the head with this new bike IMO.

It's gonna be a long 3 months

If you had to choose again between the 2012 GSA or the 2013 GS, which would you do? I'm faced with this choice coming from a 2005 1200GS and would be very interested in your opinion.

Thanks

[khale]

Originally Posted by Nyuscdjs

If you had to choose again between the 2012 GSA or the 2013 GS, which would you do? I'm faced with this choice coming from a 2005 1200GS and would be very interested in your opinion.

Thanks

I'm coming from a 2005 r12GS to having my deposit down and salivating over the new 2013 waterboxer.
My father has a 2012 r12 GSA triple black and it is a NICE ride. I rode it for the first time this weekend. It feels like a Cadillac on the tarmac, but I can instantly tell it's ready for off road as well with a wonderful ESA, which the 2013 will have as an option.
If you are looking to do long distance rides and don't care to stop a lot, get the GSA because it has a bigger fuel tank.
If you are looking for more horsepower, lighter bike, get the 2013 water boxer. I don't like riding more than 100-150 miles without stopping, so a large fuel tank isn't for me. It's going to have the same features/options and more that the 2012 GSA has, minus the large fuel tank and crash bars. It will have a really neat LED package feature(i hope it's available in the states).

My vote is going to be on the 2013 water boxer. I've sat on it at the road show and it feels great. Unfortunately, they didn't have a key so I couldn't hear it started.

Remember, the 2013 is an ENTIRELY different bike, almost everything is new on this bike. You are taking somewhat of a risk as a consumer being a beta tester for BMW, but I'm really not too worried about it. If there's a major problem, BMW will do a recall. You'll have a 3 year warranty as well.

Welcome to ADV :)

[RichBMW]

Originally Posted by Nyuscdjs

If you had to choose again between the 2012 GSA or the 2013 GS, which would you do? I'm faced with this choice coming from a 2005 1200GS and would be very interested in your opinion.

Thanks

IMO, go for the 2013, as it will be an awesome machine. I run a 2012 triple black 12gs and am trading it in against the new model. Yes, I've lost a bit of money, but its so gonna be worth it.

I'm not normally suckered in to getting the emporers new clothes, but this is my only vice in life and numbers on paper isn't gonna get the heart racing as much!

[khale]

Originally Posted by RichBMW

IMO, go for the 2013, as it will be an awesome machine. I run a 2012 triple black 12gs and am trading it in against the new model. Yes, I've lost a bit of money, but its so gonna be worth it.

I'm not normally suckered in to getting the emporers new clothes, but this is my only vice in life and numbers on paper isn't gonna get the heart racing as much!

What color are you getting, Rich? Have you put your deposit down? Once my dad see's and rides my water boxer, I bet he will want the 2014 GSA water boxer if it arrives
I'm getting the redhead model

[RichBMW]

Originally Posted by khale

What color are you getting, Rich? Have you put your deposit down? Once my dad see's and rides my water boxer, I bet he will want the 2014 GSA water boxer if it arrives
I'm getting the redhead model

I'm going for Thunder Grey, but the Alpine white ones at the show with cross spoke wheels does look nice. What do you guys think?