Dealing with dealers.....

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by Davis53

I bought a lot of parts from Grand Prix Cycles, and maybe you. I recall Ian gave me a new frame for my PUCH 125. I did not even buy it from them. It was a good shop to deal with.

Well Davis53...If you bought parts from Grand Prix Cycles in 1972-5, you bought some from me at least a couple times. They let me work any hours I could make. I generally had early morning classes and one late afternoon class. So I worked a few hours in the middle of the day and came back for the evening hours. I worked every weekend both days except for race season. I got Sundays off to do that.

Here is an image of my shop jersey (which I still have), but I never wore it with the Fox pants. The pants I had then were some sort of JC Whitney leather things with race stripes down the sides. Red white blue as I recall. . I wore High Point Boots, though. The best boots money could buy. Somehow I lost them after life took over...

Here is an image of the helmet I wore taken recently too:


We had an occasional staff member who raced a Puch 125 for Ian. He was a teenage 6 footer about 140lbs with curley brown hair and glasses. I've been trying to think of his name for decades. Is that you?

We had some other interesting youngsters hanging around there and racing with us on weekends. These young guys went on to invent great sporting products. Keith Bontrager of mountain bike fame comes to mind first, and a kid by the name of Simons, who invented the inverted fork (although it was air charged as I recall).

Anyways, Grand Prix Cycles was at the heart of the emerging Northern California motocross scene; Sand Hill, Hang Town, Dixon Landing, Sears Point, Baylands, Watsonvile Fairgrounds.

I know you know those places...

[cliffy109]

Originally Posted by kraven

As long as we're talking about how to work the system, if you're dealing with a shop that's big enough to have a commissioned salesperson, there's a way to short circuit the machine.
Show the sales guy 3-500 bucks. Tell him it's his if he can get a you a screaming deal on the bike.
Get the screaming deal. Give him the cash.
You just cut the owner out of the loop.

Accepting that cash would be cause for not only being fired but for having your sales license revoked. Sure, you may get away with it but if you get caught, it is not only the end of that job, but the end of any vehicle sales job.

Besides that, most bikes don't have the level of mark-up that a bribe such as this would cover. A $20K BMW might have less than $2K mark-up so how good of a deal do you think the salesman can get you and is it worth $500 in his pocket to get that? Probably not.

[DAKEZ]

^^ You have some funny laws over there.

Sales License.

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

I would rather be dead than take advantage of or steel from a man like that. I understand that not all stores are like this... That some stores, owners and people working in the industry have somehow lost the passion along the way. For Team Latus (and MANY other good stores) It is still all about the riding!
Not because it is our "job"... We do it because we WANT TO! And as George says: "How Cool is that!"

Reminds me- I need to call and ask about whatever happened to the parts they were supposed to order to fix a TSB issue for me... in July.

That said, when my T800XC's ECU needed to be re-flashed, they got me in and out the same day I called them.

[Human Ills]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

I wouldn't want to buy anything from pond scum. I have accepted tips as High as $100 for making the buying experience fun but it was after the sale... I would NEVER take a bribe and would never buy anything from someone that does.

The free market at work.

[wb57]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

If your offer was reasonable and you were someone worthy of helping (not an arrogant demanding buffoon) you would get a yes. If your offer is NOT reasonable you would get a "NO" and shown a bike that you could buy for that much. If you replied like an arrogant buffoon you would be escorted out the door.

A fistful of cash matters LESS than a smile and a jovial personality. Be someone they want to help and you will stand a better chance of getting what you want. The stack of hundreds only shows you are able. Show them you are worthy... Tell them you are able and leave the cash in your pocket.

Had to reread this a couple times to make sure I read it correctly. As a customer, I need to prove I'm worthy of your product? Seriously? I need to be personable and witty to make a deal at your shop? Doesn't sound like the retailer/customer relationship I'm familiar with.

I contend you've got it 180 degrees out of phase here. The retailer needs to prove to me that he's worthy of my cash/business.

Had a dealer that I gave most of my new bike business and all of my parts/gear/accessories business for close to ten years. I spent an average of $5-6000/year in there. Shopping for a new bike last year, I called him (the owner) with a price I wanted to pay on a new bike. I had that price in hand from another dealer and asked if he'd match it. He told me he wouldn't take less than about 15% more than that. He's got his own methods and practices for staying in business and has been around for a good while. Went to the other dealer and bought the bike and took the rest of my business with me. In the previous ten years, I'd sent him plenty of other business and I've been more than "jovial" during that time. I know all the employees in parts and most in service and saw them off hours at races, etc.

I've been jovial, friendly, loyal and sent him business as well as spending well over $50K in there, but apparently that wasn't enough to even get a price match on a soon to be leftover model new bike. The other dealer was friendly to me and went above and beyond, in my opinion, what someone should do to get and keep a customer. I'll be damned if I'm going to be made to feel that it's MY job to make the dealer feel loved.

[Pantah]

I think all Dakez is saying is that it's a two way street. People who treat each other with respect can do better. Nobody wants to deal with a jerk. There isn't enough money at stake to put up with it and it's no fun.

Not sure why you are upset with your former dealer. He couldn't do your deal so you found one who would. Who knows why, but you got satisfaction anyway. He did you a favor.

Originally Posted by wb57

I've been jovial, friendly, loyal and sent him business as well as spending well over $50K in there, but apparently that wasn't enough to even get a price match on a soon to be leftover model new bike. The other dealer was friendly to me and went above and beyond, in my opinion, what someone should do to get and keep a customer. I'll be damned if I'm going to be made to feel that it's MY job to make the dealer feel loved.

[Offcamber]

I think the bottom line is people just need to treat each other with respect...If you don't get it from the dealership walk out if a customer doesn't show respect to the dealer don't expect it back or a good deal for that matter. I have walked out of plenty of car and bike dealerships when I am not treated like the intelligent informed buyer that I am....One questioned my manhood becuase I had to talk about the purchase with my wife....they didn't get the sale.

I deal with clients on a daily basis some are great, easy to deal with and treat my time like it has value. Others treat me with less respect but I still treat them with respect. However, guess which ones I go the extra mile for and those I don't....

[cliffy109]

Originally Posted by wb57

Had to reread this a couple times to make sure I read it correctly. As a customer, I need to prove I'm worthy of your product? Seriously? I need to be personable and witty to make a deal at your shop? Doesn't sound like the retailer/customer relationship I'm familiar with.

I contend you've got it 180 degrees out of phase here. The retailer needs to prove to me that he's worthy of my cash/business.

Nope. He has it right. The arrogant, obnoxious prick customer is often the one who gets the best "deal" but that guy whom little money is made is often also the one who demands favors and extras down the line and the one who kills you on a customer satisfaction survey. It isn't worth selling vehicles to people like that. The cost to the dealer outweighs the of the benefits of the sale. The friendly, respectful customer is the one we should be giving the better deals to because in the long run, that's who we develop positive relationships with. It doesn't always work out that way because pushy and loud people are often very difficult to reject.

Your story is a sad tale to me. If you had such a good relationship with that dealer, why did you need to shop his price? Sounds like it wasn't such a good relationship after all. Who knows... maybe your story is complete and the dealer was foolish. Then again, maybe the other dealer had an incentive the first one didn't and was able to make a deal your original guy couldn't. Maybe the original dealer had a good reason why he couldn't come down on that particular model and maybe he tried everything he could to make the deal make sense for all parties.

Maybe the dealer looked at your history and realized that while you spent lots of money with him, he wasn't actually making any money and that you were costing him an inordinate amount of time and aggravation. I don't know. I wasn't there but your story is VERY familiar to me.

[1911fan]

It's worse when the "arrogant, obnoxious prick" is family. Family will do and say things nobody else will, because they've got an 'in' at the dealership. Either gross them, or let somebody else sell them.

I have to second the comments about mutual respect made above. I get to deal with people all day, and the polite ones get the extra efforts. The jerks get what's required, no more. They'll complain to management and tube you on a survey even if you go 110%, because they're jerks. I save my best efforts for those who appreciate it.

Why do people piss off people they want something from? We just banned a customer who has completely alienated the sales and service staff by being a loud, demanding, arrogant asshole to every one, every time he came in. Complained to the manufacturer when we wouldn't do stuff for free, tanked us on a survey for reasons that had nothing to do with his service, and then refused to pay charges he'd authorized, claiming he 'thought it was warranty'. And more. Now, to get anything done, he gets to drive almost 200 miles to the nearest other dealer.

A little politeness goes a long way. I don't think people realize how much ability dealership staff has to make things better for the customer.... or not.


1911fan

[Reverend12]

I've been a Dealer and I can honestly say that markup on a $6,000 bike is very little, the dealer is probably making between $250-300 max on this price and then you have to take into consideration that he has cost involved with paying his techs to put it together and servicing it, usually about $120 + fluids etc. If the bike is a leftover you can add monthly floorplan to that as well and likely the bike is being sold at a loss, unless the factory is offering a holdback. Dealers have been surviving on these holdbacks in the past, but they are not that many incentives out there anymore.

[majlee_vmi]

Originally Posted by cliffy109

Nope. He has it right. The arrogant, obnoxious prick customer is often the one who gets the best "deal" but that guy whom little money is made is often also the one who demands favors and extras down the line and the one who kills you on a customer satisfaction survey. It isn't worth selling vehicles to people like that. The cost to the dealer outweighs the of the benefits of the sale. The friendly, respectful customer is the one we should be giving the better deals to because in the long run, that's who we develop positive relationships with. It doesn't always work out that way because pushy and loud people are often very difficult to reject.

Your story is a sad tale to me. If you had such a good relationship with that dealer, why did you need to shop his price? Sounds like it wasn't such a good relationship after all. Who knows... maybe your story is complete and the dealer was foolish. Then again, maybe the other dealer had an incentive the first one didn't and was able to make a deal your original guy couldn't. Maybe the original dealer had a good reason why he couldn't come down on that particular model and maybe he tried everything he could to make the deal make sense for all parties.

Maybe the dealer looked at your history and realized that while you spent lots of money with him, he wasn't actually making any money and that you were costing him an inordinate amount of time and aggravation. I don't know. I wasn't there but your story is VERY familiar to me.

I had to re-read Dakez' post and I think I was able to draw out the point he was making, but I was also a bit surprised by his statement to prove myself worthy to buy the product. I don't think I have to prove myself worthy, just able to buy what is being sold. How I go about proving myself able to buy it is the art. Charm, personality, please and thank you, dignity, respect - in short, good home training - demonstrate I'm able to buy the bike, or whatever, in a better manner than being a prick. But at no time do I think I have to prove myself worthy of buying the bike.

[RxZ]

All I know, without having ever meet personally Dakez I can say that if I ever want a Harley (or Triumph) I would most likely seriously consider buying from him. That sentiment comes from him taking time via PMs on this site to answer questions I had about a certain bike. Without me even asking he offered said bike from his dealership at a very competitive price. So yes, I would buy from the dealership he works at, and I live nearly 2,000 miles away!

Fly and rides are fun, right

RxZ (doesn't always agree with Dakez, but on customer service [and retention] he is right)

[majlee_vmi]

Originally Posted by RxZ

All I know, without having ever meet personally Dakez I can say that if I ever want a Harley (or Triumph) I would most likely seriously consider buying from him. That sentiment comes from him taking time via PMs on this site to answer questions I had about a certain bike. Without me even asking he offered said bike from his dealership at a very competitive price. So yes, I would buy from the dealership he works at, and I live nearly 2,000 miles away!

Fly and rides are fun, right

RxZ (doesn't always agree with Dakez, but on customer service [and retention] he is right)

I'd probably buy a bike from him as well given an opportunity. I'd use some more tact than flashing a stack of $100's and demanding stuff and getting my shorts knotted if I didn't get what I wanted, but I was brought up better.

Sadly, fly and ride is fun, but a little rough right now geographically. Hey Dakez, when are you opening up a shop in Germany?

[Human Ills]

Originally Posted by wb57

Had to reread this a couple times to make sure I read it correctly. As a customer, I need to prove I'm worthy of your product? Seriously? I need to be personable and witty to make a deal at your shop? Doesn't sound like the retailer/customer relationship I'm familiar with.

I contend you've got it 180 degrees out of phase here. The retailer needs to prove to me that he's worthy of my cash/business.

Had a dealer that I gave most of my new bike business and all of my parts/gear/accessories business for close to ten years. I spent an average of $5-6000/year in there. Shopping for a new bike last year, I called him (the owner) with a price I wanted to pay on a new bike. I had that price in hand from another dealer and asked if he'd match it. He told me he wouldn't take less than about 15% more than that. He's got his own methods and practices for staying in business and has been around for a good while. Went to the other dealer and bought the bike and took the rest of my business with me. In the previous ten years, I'd sent him plenty of other business and I've been more than "jovial" during that time. I know all the employees in parts and most in service and saw them off hours at races, etc.

I've been jovial, friendly, loyal and sent him business as well as spending well over $50K in there, but apparently that wasn't enough to even get a price match on a soon to be leftover model new bike. The other dealer was friendly to me and went above and beyond, in my opinion, what someone should do to get and keep a customer. I'll be damned if I'm going to be made to feel that it's MY job to make the dealer feel loved.

Dakez is a negotiator by trade. What he's doing is called his 'opening offer'.