ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-27-2012, 10:34 AM   #106
outdoornate65 OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Front Range, CO
Oddometer: 66
Wow...this thread has evolved.

So this morning I visited a small Honda shop (only line they carry) to look at the CFR250L.

Liked the bike....like the dealership. Family-run place with one salesman running back and forth between me and a nice older couple looking at big-ass cruisers.

Told me they don't have the fees that "Mega Cycle World" charges. To me that helps simplify the deal.

I'm liking the "OTD number" idea you guys have suggested. Think I will stick a number on paper and head back into see them soon.

As far as the little Honda goes, I did not ride the bike but really like the look of the rig and the fit and finish seems pretty darn good for a $4500 bike. It's bit tall for me but hope it will sag a bit under my fat ass. Seat could be used as a short balance-beam. Will be the first thing to go.

I really appreciate all the great advice you guys have provided. We all want to save some money but I agree with the idea of finding the right dealer as much as finding the right "deal". I left that small, old Honda dealer with a good vibe today.
outdoornate65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:02 PM   #107
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by wb57 View Post
Had to reread this a couple times to make sure I read it correctly. As a customer, I need to prove I'm worthy of your product? Seriously? I need to be personable and witty to make a deal at your shop?


I called him (the owner) with a price I wanted to pay on a new bike. I had that price in hand from another dealer
You did NOT read it correctly.

In life the manner in which people treat others has an effect on how others feel about them. Act the way you like. You are always welcome. A smile is better than a scowl. Laughter better than a sneer.

Treat others well and they will WANT to help you. Treat them poorly and they MAY still help you but you could have done better for both yourself and them.

You should have gone into the store and spoken to him IMHO.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib

DAKEZ screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 01:03 PM
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:31 PM   #108
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by majlee_vmi View Post
I had to re-read Dakez' post and I think I was able to draw out the point he was making, but I was also a bit surprised by his statement to prove myself worthy to buy the product. I don't think I have to prove myself worthy, just able to buy what is being sold. How I go about proving myself able to buy it is the art. Charm, personality, please and thank you, dignity, respect - in short, good home training - demonstrate I'm able to buy the bike, or whatever, in a better manner than being a prick. But at no time do I think I have to prove myself worthy of buying the bike.
You said: "Prove" I said "Show them you are worthy... " As in make them want to give you a good deal.

Nice people get discounts and other things without even having to ask for them.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 01:44 PM   #109
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109 View Post
Accepting that cash would be cause for not only being fired but for having your sales license revoked. Sure, you may get away with it but if you get caught, it is not only the end of that job, but the end of any vehicle sales job.

Besides that, most bikes don't have the level of mark-up that a bribe such as this would cover. A $20K BMW might have less than $2K mark-up so how good of a deal do you think the salesman can get you and is it worth $500 in his pocket to get that? Probably not.
Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #110
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoornate65 View Post

I really appreciate all the great advice you guys have provided. We all want to save some money but I agree with the idea of finding the right dealer as much as finding the right "deal". I left that small, old Honda dealer with a good vibe today.
Hey, good for you, man.
Good luck on your purchase.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:13 PM   #111
dwoodward
Beastly Adventurer
 
dwoodward's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet, Napa Valley North
Oddometer: 5,227
Walked into a dealer last night to look at a new bike. We joked, we bantered, we chatted, we threw a few numbers around.

I rode it home. Was it the cheapest OTD deal? Maybe not- but considering how far I'd have to go to beat it (fly 'n' ride, gas, motels even if I rode home at a 1000 mile/day pace) it actually probably was.

They had two other people that were going to go look at this bike today, and probably could have sold it for full retail within a week.

I was nice to them, they were nice to me. Go figure...
dwoodward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:22 PM   #112
cliffy109
Beastly Adventurer
 
cliffy109's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Oddometer: 1,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Walked into a dealer last night to look at a new bike. We joked, we bantered, we chatted, we threw a few numbers around.

I rode it home. Was it the cheapest OTD deal? Maybe not- but considering how far I'd have to go to beat it (fly 'n' ride, gas, motels even if I rode home at a 1000 mile/day pace) it actually probably was.

They had two other people that were going to go look at this bike today, and probably could have sold it for full retail within a week.

I was nice to them, they were nice to me. Go figure...
Nice! Funny how that works out isn't it? They demonstrated the value of purchasing from them and you placed value on your time and the easy process and experience and you walked away happy and on two wheels. Great job. Enjoy the bike.
cliffy109 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 03:24 PM   #113
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Walked into a dealer last night to look at a new bike. We joked, we bantered, we chatted, we threw a few numbers around.

I rode it home.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 03:31 PM   #114
Josephvman
I'm the Decider
 
Josephvman's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Oddometer: 3,445
You nailed it boss. When it comes to manufacturer goodwill, the dealer's willingness to push is probably 80% of the outcome. The manufacturer service rep responsible for yes or no when it comes to warranty grey areas or bikes that are just out of warranty coverage wants to know from the dealer if the customer is good guy, a longtime client, and someone who will continue to buy the brand and do business with the dealer if they take care of him, or an angry prick who is a constant headache who likes to drop the lawyer word. As a dealer, you need to pick your battles with the manufacturer's you represent, and save your available goodwill for those whose business you value most is just good business.

In reading some of the first-person anecdotes I can't help but wonder if communication is part of the issue when deals don't seem to get done. From a sales perspective there's a big difference between a customer asking if you can match a price and actually making an offer to buy a bike at a price, and obviously be ready to close the deal. One can be construed as merely "fishing", and often when this is turned around on the buyer we discover that's the case. I've seen dozens of posts through the years on this forum about guys who were throwing numbers around on the floor with a salesman on bikes that they admittedly had no interest in actually buying, incredulous that the salesman didn't drop his pants on price straight away.

This is kind of a funny, longish story! I bought my last new bike on Ebay, oddly enough. I saw it listed, and called the dealer and told them I was interested in the bike but really didn't want to wait a week and bid against people who may or may not have been able to close the deal. Not a cheap bike, around $20k. I made them what I thought was a reasonable offer to end their auction, something that is easy enough to do and has no penalty to them. They refused, so I started bidding on the bike, which wasn't seeing a whole lot of action. In the meantime I called my local dealers, but at that point there might have been a half-dozen new ones left in the country, and the one I was bidding on was the only one in TX. I called the selling dealer the day before the auction ended and bumped my offer $1500, but they insisted on letting the auction run it's course. At that point I'd pretty much decided to let it go, but just for kicks I checked the auction an hour before it ended, and I was still the high bidder, and the bike had hit the reserve. There was one other bidder in the running,and we traded bids the last few minutes, and I ended up winning the bike, for about $2k less than I had offered the dealer the day before. I called the dealer, fully expecting them to have an excuse why they couldn't honor the price, and they were a bit shocked when they realized I was the guy trying to buy the bike, for a bunch more money, earlier in the week. To their credit they were extremely stand-up guys, and we closed the deal at the auction price in a very professional manner, and I had the bike shipped down a couple of days later. I did have a pretty funny conversation with the sales manager after the fact, as it was the owner of the shop I had been talking with about price. He pretty much told me that the owner outsmarted himself on that one, and he wanted to take the deal I had on the table. Very ethical dealer though, as I think a lot of dealers wouldn't have honored the auction.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911fan View Post
A little politeness goes a long way. I don't think people realize how much ability dealership staff has to make things better for the customer.... or not.


1911fan
__________________
'11 Ducati Multistrada 1200S Sport "Stormtrooper II"
'09 BMW HP2 Sport
'98 Ducati 900SS Final Edition "The old whore"
'93 Ducati 900SS "Slightly older whore"
"Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

Josephvman screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 04:11 PM
Josephvman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #115
Pantah
Patriot Nation?
 
Pantah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: India Wharf
Oddometer: 10,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post
You nailed it boss. about price. He pretty much told me that the owner outsmarted himself on that one, and he wanted to take the deal I had on the table. Very ethical dealer though, as I think a lot of dealers wouldn't have honored the auction.
Good story, but you can't post a novel on this forum and expect anybody to read it!

I did though.
__________________
Straight ahead and faster -Bo Weaver 1970
"There I was..." -Griffin Niner Three Hotel
"One day closer to a parade..." Jonny Gomes, spring training 2013
Pantah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #116
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,695
Is it too late for the tl;dr?

Just kidding. Good e-bay story.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:16 PM   #117
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by wb57 View Post

Had a dealer that I gave most of my new bike business and all of my parts/gear/accessories business for close to ten years.

Shopping for a new bike last year, I called him (the owner) with a price I wanted to pay on a new bike.

He told me he wouldn't take less than about 15% more than that.

Went to the other dealer and bought the bike and took the rest of my business with me.
15% is huge.

Either they guy you bought from was giving the bike away, or they guy you used to buy from wasn't willing to cut any kind of a deal.

How 'bout some numbers and make/model of bike?
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
IBA #24873
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:57 PM   #118
ChadHahn
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Tucson, AZ
Oddometer: 258
I thought I'd throw my dealership story out there. When I was thinking about getting another motorcycle I thought about getting a scooter. I talked the wife into going to get a cup of coffee with me and it turned out that the coffee shop was next door to the scooter place.

We walked in and looked at the different scooters and asked all sorts of questions and then left. We went to the coffee shop and talked about it. The wife said that if I liked it I should go in a get it.

We finished our coffee and headed back to the scooter store. I asked the sales man if we could take the bike for a ride. He said that they didn't have any demos of the scooter I was interested in. OK, how about a similar sized scooter to see how it rides two up. Sorry, I'd have to make an appointment and come back at a later date to actually ride one.

The salesman was usually the mechanic and was filling in, but I'd think if somebody spent half an hour talking about a bike with you and then came back I'd assume that they were actually interested in buying. Since there was no way I could get a bike that day I thanked him went home and found my 1100GS for about the same money.

I guess I should be thankful, if I had a scooter (even one as cool as a Stella) I doubt I'd have stayed happy.

Chad
ChadHahn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 04:16 AM   #119
wb57
Beastly Adventurer
 
wb57's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Central NC
Oddometer: 6,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I think all Dakez is saying is that it's a two way street. People who treat each other with respect can do better. Nobody wants to deal with a jerk. There isn't enough money at stake to put up with it and it's no fun.

Not sure why you are upset with your former dealer. He couldn't do your deal so you found one who would. Who knows why, but you got satisfaction anyway. He did you a favor.
Maybe on the first part. I may have read it the wrong way.

The only favor that was done on the second part is I don't have to waste any loyalty on someone who thinks it only works one way. Kind of a "you give me your money and I'll be happy to take it" arrangement.
__________________
'10 Kawasaki Concours (EB)
'11 Kawasaki Versys

Turning money into spent fossil fuels.
(Smiley crap is implied in all posts.)
wb57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 04:28 AM   #120
wb57
Beastly Adventurer
 
wb57's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Central NC
Oddometer: 6,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109 View Post
Nope. He has it right. The arrogant, obnoxious prick customer is often the one who gets the best "deal" but that guy whom little money is made is often also the one who demands favors and extras down the line and the one who kills you on a customer satisfaction survey. It isn't worth selling vehicles to people like that. The cost to the dealer outweighs the of the benefits of the sale. The friendly, respectful customer is the one we should be giving the better deals to because in the long run, that's who we develop positive relationships with. It doesn't always work out that way because pushy and loud people are often very difficult to reject.

Your story is a sad tale to me. If you had such a good relationship with that dealer, why did you need to shop his price? Sounds like it wasn't such a good relationship after all. Who knows... maybe your story is complete and the dealer was foolish. Then again, maybe the other dealer had an incentive the first one didn't and was able to make a deal your original guy couldn't. Maybe the original dealer had a good reason why he couldn't come down on that particular model and maybe he tried everything he could to make the deal make sense for all parties.

Maybe the dealer looked at your history and realized that while you spent lots of money with him, he wasn't actually making any money and that you were costing him an inordinate amount of time and aggravation. I don't know. I wasn't there but your story is VERY familiar to me.
I didn't shop his price. The other dealer was offering test rides on two bikes I was interested in. I'd ridden neither so I went. He gave me an OTD price and I took it to the first guy and asked him to match it or at least come close. I could have bought every bike I've bought from him in the past for less. I figured a relationship wasn't worth a few hundred bucks and bought from him anyway. In this case, 15% or so wasn't even in the same ballpark. I have no idea what his reasons were either and it doesn't really matter just as my reasons didn't matter to him.

Good relationship? I like to think it was. I bought bikes from him. I did all the research on parts, gear etc. and sent the parts department OEM, Tucker Rocky, Parts Unlimited and WPS part numbers and asked them to just let me know whenever they were in. The Service Manager would get me warranty parts, I'd install them and he'd get the warranty labor money. I have a close affiliation with a riding facility and would send him customers/business regularly. Wore his t-shirts and plastered his bumper stickers on my truck. Don't know what more I could have done to be a good customer.
__________________
'10 Kawasaki Concours (EB)
'11 Kawasaki Versys

Turning money into spent fossil fuels.
(Smiley crap is implied in all posts.)
wb57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014