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Old 12-05-2012, 09:25 AM   #16
larryboy
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When does the build start? You have posted in the build area and I demand progress and pictures!!

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:00 PM   #17
bandito2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
When does the build start? You have posted in the build area and I demand progress and pictures!!

I just got a response today from an email I sent to Craig Vetter about the "Last Vetter Fairing"

Well, he hasn't made the full mold for the front nose yet, but still could do the front part of it (the white part on front) if he
decides to not do the full mold. Then I would have to fab from that to the handle bars. Pretty much like the rear part needs
to be done which is basically flat wrap aluminum supported by bulkheads. Pretty simple in theory but we'll see how it goes
in practice. Around Christmas time Craig will let me know what he is going to do and then I'll be able to form a plan of action.

If he decides on doing the full mold, then I'll have to wait until he gets done making it over the winter and then more waiting
while the fairing gets laid up in fiberglass. When that time gets nearer, I'll remove the plastic from the 2007 Reflex and start
moving some parts that sit on the outside part of the frame and remove some protruding tabs and such to help make it
narrower. There are also some other things that will need to get done in preparation, but again I am going to wait until I know
that the fairing parts will be forthcoming before I commit to taking things apart on the scooter.

Of course there will be photos and updates once the process begins. (we'll just have to be patient)
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:21 AM   #18
larryboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandito2 View Post
Of course there will be photos and updates once the process begins. (we'll just have to be patient)

I was mostly needling sendler since he started a build thread in the build forum I figured he'd be building one.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:26 PM   #19
bandito2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
All of the current design work was done on a Ninja250 because used bikes are so plentiful and cheap. Only afterwards did Vetter fit these final parts onto his scooter. Read all about at the link. He has basically written a book, documenting the entire process at craigvetter.com.
Just so we'll have the proper chronology on the "Last Vetter Fairing" , start reading about it here:
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470...20Fairing.html

Actually, of the 61 chapters so far, (as of December 1, 2012) Alan Smith (owner of the Ninja) wasn't even mentioned until
chapter 39. And at that time he was using a Honda CRF230. The Ninja project, designated as "Streamlining a Ninja" which
is the application of "Kit #1" doesn't begin until chapter 44. So the bulk of the design work was done first around the Honda
Helix then was later applied to the Ninja, not the other way around. And for the last few chapters, the "design" work was
being done on both the Helix and the Ninja concurrently.

Just curious, but does anybody else have it seriously mind to do this to their bike? (scooter or motorcycle)
Myself, I can't wait.
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Now only 3 Honda Reflex scooters and a FSC600A Silverwing too
Originator of the
"Darkside" Honda Reflex. "Yeah dude, that IS a car tire there on the back of my scooter."

bandito2 screwed with this post 12-11-2012 at 04:43 PM
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:53 PM   #20
sendler OP
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I'm going all out streamlined but keeping the super sport, lay on a tank bag, head forward position on the CBR250R. I bought a new bicycle for an electric hub motor conversion though. I will be going feet forward on that one.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:32 PM   #21
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Well, as I kind of suspected, what Vetter will be selling is not really a complete kit. What we have available so far is the two halves of the nose. I sent off money for the set. I do wish he had something of the steering turret to sell though. That will be the trickiest part to fabricate on my own but will be doable with diligence. It would be nice if that part is ready for sale when I need it. The nose would have been tedious to do on my own, so I'm glad I won't have to go through that. Bunches of stuff to do on my Honda Reflex in preparation of mounting a fairing. But I pretty much have an idea of what I want to do there, so that should go rather quickly.

I do have a completion goal. I intend to do like I did when building an ultralight aircraft and had the goal of having it done in time for an airshow. I made that goal in part by doing at least a little something to it every day that I could. (It was a mad rush near the end though) It seems a lot of little steps WILL get you where you want to go. And I want to go to the AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days in Ohio this coming July 19, 20, 21 riding a streamlined Reflex.

Even after getting parts and supplies for the project, I figure it will still take several months to "get r' done" and I have a couple friends that will keep me motivated and moving on the project. (maybe I should remind them again to keep after me ) But I will document the process even if it just comes in dribs and drabs. So get the popcorn ready.... the show is about to begin!
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Originator of the
"Darkside" Honda Reflex. "Yeah dude, that IS a car tire there on the back of my scooter."
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:04 AM   #22
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interesting that Vetter just posted this today on ecomodders.
.
Vetter on the right shape

Consider the following:
Streamlining is only one shape: Round at the front, pointed at the rear
The smallest frontal area that does the job will determine the overall streamlined shape
Streamlining allows the least energy to push a person down the road

The Vetter goal:
Design for a person sitting upright and comfortable.
Design for being able to travel 70mph in 30 mph winds
Design to carry a useful load
End up with a vehicle that is “not more trouble than it is worth”
End up with a vehicle that is your “first choice”

The “Last Vetter Fairing”
When I began this project in 2009 I was aware that if I did my job well, this would be the last fairing I would ever need to design.

Anybody trying to solve the same problem will arrive at the same shape that I have.

This means that we will all look the same.

What is the point to each person re-inventing parts to end up with the same shape?
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandito2 View Post
And I want to go to the AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days in Ohio this coming July 19, 20, 21 riding a streamlined Reflex.
Mid Ohio is a BLAST!
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:38 AM   #24
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I've got an extra Reflex I may experiment with. Right now, I'm thinking lower the seat, slant back the windshield, maybe narrow the handlebars.
Next would be a tapered tail section. Side fairings would be more complicated, maybe something that hinges out to some degree to allow feet to get down, then the wind blows them closed once underway.
I would see how much difference this makes before making gearing changes. Probably car tire and heavy rolloers first.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikeridermark View Post
I've got an extra Reflex I may experiment with. Right now, I'm thinking lower the seat, slant back the windshield, maybe narrow the handlebars.
Next would be a tapered tail section.
Build a truncated tail for sure. MPG will improve and you will have a lockable trunk that can carry all your groceries or camping gear.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:04 PM   #26
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Yea, I started streamlining there, also! Gained 2mph average. Maybe complete bodysock next.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:31 AM   #27
Ricklesss
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Cool thread, glad I found it.
I've always fantasized (half seriously) about building a streamliner with similar goals for one of my CT110's or CT90's of which we own several. Even with knobbies and lowish gearing, they get fairly astounding gas milage, albietly "slowly", but still, I like the machine quite a lot.
With even a half assed attempt at streamlining one, it would have to get near 200mpg, I should think.
Great thread..hope it keeps on keepin' on...
RicklesssssS in Oregon
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:35 PM   #28
JerryH
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I rode a Tour Easy before my knees finally gave out. But that Vetter thing looks downright dangerous. It would be awkward and clumsy around town, and who knows what kind of effect wind gusts or a passing 18 wheeler would have on it out on the road. Looks very top heavy and unstable.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
who knows what kind of effect wind gusts or a passing 18 wheeler would have on it out on the road.
Vetter knows.He has ridden 1000's of miles on his. I rode behind Alan's streamliner at Ohio last year and it is uncanny how quiet and calm it is in truck wakes. Invisible to wind. The tail weighs 22 lbs. It's not top heavy.
.
It is too long for my garage though I would recommend truncating the tail to a Kamm a foot behind the rear wheel. Craig has had the rear section of his tail on and off and on again. He likes the ride better with it on.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:38 PM   #30
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Think I've made enough progress on the Vetter fairing project for my 2007 Honda Reflex to make it worth posting. A lot of the progress has come in the last couple weeks since it has finally been warm enough (mostly) here in S.E. Michigan to be able to do composite work.

Here is the nose section as it arrived from Vetter.



The naked 2007 Honda Reflex scooter that will be getting the fairing.
For those that know the Reflex, note the rear tire for a Honda Silverwing mounted up front and a 155/80R12 car tire on the rear. Previously had a 145/70R12 car tire on the rear but it had 35,000 miles on it so it was time to change it. I have also installed a Polini racing gear set to the final drive that is a little taller ratio than the stock final gears. Initial test rides show lower RPMs at speed, but not as much of an improvement in MPG as hoped. Hopefully more improvement will show with the fairing installed. And I can still experiment with different rear tire sizes to help eke out the best MPG.



Marking the inside of the nose where the bulkhead will mount as an aid to be able to position it in the same place when removing/replacing it during the construction process. Using plywood for the bulkheads may be heavier than doing aluminum framework like Craig Vetter did, but it seems to me to be quicker/easier/less expensive.



The nose temporarily installed after cut-out was made to the bulkhead. The bike is suspended from the garage rafters with a couple ratchet straps because that is what I had available to do the job. I could still sit on the bike without worry, so it worked out fairly well.



Traced out the front wheel cut-out. (seems to be a typical "money shot" for our fairing projects):



Laying out and cutting some carbon fiber fabric that I got for cheap off ebay once upon a time ago. Ditto for some fiberglass fabric too.



The first 2 composite parts parts I ever made. The lower was the first and ended up with wrinkles when the mold expanded more than the lay-up in it from heating in the sun and part of it pulled away from the mold. (mistake from trying to speed the cure process) This problem was compounded when the mold shrank and compressed from temperature cooling down to 50 some-odd degrees at night in the garage. The second part was made inside my house with a constant 73 to 76 degrees maintained for the 3 days of curing. That made a huge difference in part quality. Fabric weave distorted also in places from trying to reposition it properly. (another thing I learned not to do) I also got some fine scratches in the home-made mold when I put the first piece in and out of the mold a couple times. Threads of fabric with hardened epoxy are sharp and hard as needles. The scratches are not real deep and not too bad really and mostly are only noticed if specifically looked for. Not sure to what degree scratches can be remedied. For now they are a permanent aspect of the mold, but I guess I'll live with it. This will be a non-issue with parts that are to be painted. In fact, parts that will be painted will need light sanding to roughen the existing nearly mirror smooth surface for better paint adhesion.

The second piece turned out much better, but I still had some small air bubble "pitting" in a few places. (need to do more/better roller work to get ALL the bubbles out. And/or work out a vacuum bagging system to make parts.)



The lower piece will be used on the bottom of the fairing, so a good portion of the flawed part will be cut away for the rear wheel, muffler, airbox etc. anyway. The sides will be easy to do using the glass of an old storm door to do flat panel composite work. Additional flat wrap parts for the front part of the fairing will be done similarly. I'll probably pop rivet the sides on along with some fiberglass layers to the inside and just cover the rivet heads and seam line with wide pin striping for the sake of simplicity. It still should look OK, but I might change my mind on that later.

The mold will be able to make many more "half cone" rear fairing parts. The wide end of the finished part has some flexibility, so width and height of that end can be modified some just by pushing on it to narrow/heighten or widen/lower. Kind of like how the nose part can be squeezed or squashed to change its dimensions a little to suit the builder. The narrow end of the part is somewhat less flexible. Generally, the usable size of the part is: Wide end - 24" wide X 17" tall, Narrow end 1 1/4" Wide X 2 1/2" tall. Length of lower edge of part 71" I'll do a handful of these for my own use before I try to make serious efforts to sell them. Just the same, I'm putting this info out in case anyone is interested. I mean to experiment with parts that are only fiberglass along with some that include Kevlar layers. (Already did these first two parts in carbon fiber/fiberglass lay-ups)

So this is where I am so far with my project. Next is to cut/trim/fit the large parts together, then comes a bunch of smaller stuff like: the belly pan and foot rests, doing the seat and seat-back/rear storage access, building up storage space interior and rear wheel well, finishing the nose of the fairing, foot wells, headlight install, windscreen and instrument panel, making permanent fairing mounts, adding the tail light/turn signals and other such tasks.

When I get more done I'll update with more notes and pics.
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Rochester Hills Michigan Dark Side Rider
Now only 3 Honda Reflex scooters and a FSC600A Silverwing too
Originator of the
"Darkside" Honda Reflex. "Yeah dude, that IS a car tire there on the back of my scooter."
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