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Old 12-07-2012, 12:02 AM   #76
Roadracer_Al
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I'm tellin' ya, man... a custom SA will solve ALL your problems. You can use the PDS shock, but pass it through the SA with the lower mount poking out the underside. Stock shock, stock rim, stock sprockets, stock gas tank --- all possible if you do the SA.

Also, don't sweat getting the wheel centered on the chassis too much: Airhead BMWs for years ran a 1" offset, and my beloved Honda Hawk NT had a 1/2" offset. You'll never ever notice it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:20 AM   #77
Luke
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If the shock reservoir is the issue, you could always relocate it.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327558
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:15 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
If the shock reservoir is the issue, you could always relocate it.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327558

I did something similar when I fitted a different shock to my dr650.
I had plans to put a remote reservoir on the shock but I ended up just rewelding the reservoir in a different position so it cleared the frame.
It worked great but I did use a linkage shock for my linkage suspension instead of a pds shock

DRjoe screwed with this post 12-07-2012 at 03:46 AM
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:27 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadracer_Al View Post
I'm tellin' ya, man... a custom SA will solve ALL your problems. You can use the PDS shock, but pass it through the SA with the lower mount poking out the underside. Stock shock, stock rim, stock sprockets, stock gas tank --- all possible if you do the SA.

Also, don't sweat getting the wheel centered on the chassis too much: Airhead BMWs for years ran a 1" offset, and my beloved Honda Hawk NT had a 1/2" offset. You'll never ever notice it.
Al,

It's not that I don't believe you I just don't see where the benefits would be to go through that much work. My issue is centering the wheel and chain alignment. Personally I would prefer to do what I did before on my last bike which is take care of at at the sprocket. Moving the swingarm created a whole host of expenses and unforeseen problems. Building a custom arm I am sure I could do, but there is no way to get that beautiful factory look and I don't want some enormous thing back there. I'm not sure my aluminum welding and fabricating is up to snuff to trust it to take the kinds of loads it would be subjected to with a single point shock load.

I had a look last night on the KTM swingarm I have on the CBR. I can still cheat the rear sprocket out another 1/8" until it hits one of those plastic caps on the SA. So I will do that. I looked at the CS sprocket and it has room to go in towards the case plenty. I have to remove it though and see how it's constructed, my guess is that it looks like every other CS sprocket and it has a polished spacer that goes through the seal. I'll remove the spacer and take it down as much as I can safely do. Let's say I can get 1/4" on that. Maybe 3/16" The remainder is not going to be noticeable and the chain has some inherent flexibility.

As far as the other work entailed, making the surge tank is fairly simple, and I needed to reweld and bend some tubing anyways on the subframe. But that stuff is all easy.

I don't want you to think I'm discounting your idea because you always offer excellent advice, I just think the amount of time I would spend to create a swingarm would far exceed the benefits. Plus if I want to make the kit for someone else to follow, that is going to be an expensive thing to have fabricated and I only want to have to send out a small box of CNC'd parts and a couple of tubing bends for the subframe.

But if I'm wrong I'll humbly eat crow and start fabricating. I'll fly Luke out here for a SA session

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
If the shock reservoir is the issue, you could always relocate it.
Yeah, I think the shock will be fine. I don't want to guess too much right now because it all depends on the rake I get. I jack the bike up enough for the shock to fall below the pump, but that was very drooped out. Welding up a small tank would be easy and I can leave the shock intact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRjoe View Post
I did something similar when I fitted a different shock to my dr650.
I had plans to put a remote reservoir on the shock but I ended up just rewelding the reservoir in a different position so it cleared the frame.
It worked great but I did use a linkage shock for my linkage suspension instead of a pds shock
Joe, I'm hoping it doesn't get to that. One thing I have learned about these builds, which is why I am fighting the urge to get crazy with a Sawzall, sometimes it's better to leave things stock. I've created hundreds of hours of work for myself trying to make things better in certain areas then stock. I usually end up with a result not as good as stock and a lot of spent time.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:27 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
No the ends of the shock are different
you sure they can't be changed out?
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:45 PM   #81
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you sure they can't be changed out?
The top can't and that needs to fit the swingarm. The bottom is just probably threaded but thats not the important end. Plus I'm not sure if there would be effects from running usd with the oil in the reservoir
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:04 PM   #82
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Brought the newly machined stem over to my buddies to use his hydraulic press and pop the stem from my CBR project out of the Emig triples and press in the new stem I made. Dropped in the bearings and brought it home today to test. I'm going to need to take it out again and make up a thin spacer to add under the bottom bearing to drop the lower triple away from the head tube a little as the clearance was too close. Other than adding a dust cap to the top, that project is done for now.



This is the cockpit from the CBR I swapped over. Debating how I'm going to set this bike up. I would like some wind protection and am think I might go rally fairing like the KTM 640. If I go that direction I will put the stock gauges in the dash along with a GPS. If I decide to go lightweight I will run the Trailtech with the Vapor.



Front end mocked up. This is essentially the exact setup I will run. 320mm Braking rotor, Braking caliper and Braking MC. Wheel is a stock KTM 21/1.85" Excel. Forks are from an 05 KTM RFS bike. I will probably rebuild them with fresh seals and bushings and new oil. I do have some 0.58 springs I bought for the CBR but never installed.



It's amazing how fast you can move on a project when you keep the custom work to a minimum and try and use smart solutions. I originally wanted to make a new tank up front and a new seat, but that is a TON of work. I threw the seat on this bike and had my hands on the bars for the first time. Feels really good. Obviously I am going to be going with a custom location for the footpegs so I put my feet where I thought they should be. In an ideal situation I would have the tank shorter by an couple inches and the seat forward the same, but it's really pretty good.

Because I decided to stay with the stock tank but still want 6 gallons, I picked up a Rotopax 1.75G aux tank and mounting kit. I will be trimming the stock seat pan as well as refoaming it so that Rotopax will be closer to the subframe than I am holding it. I will make some simple hoops for Wolfman Luggage like JD is Rocking, the Rotopax will be inboard of those and the exhaust will be similar on the other side.



This is in the general vicinity of where I want the pegs. I will probably end up getting some steel plate cut that I will weld to the existing frame and then support from the underside with a welded strut to the frame spar holding the engine mounts. Should be very rugged. Shifter will pivot off the tapped hole in the end of the tube you see and run a linkage to the stock shifter that I will cut.



I also did some more figgering on the chain alignment. With the spacer inboard of the CS sprocket pulled out and the CS sprocket slid as far as it will go, I am 3/8" from perfect alignment. I currently have a 1/8" spacer on the rear sprocket so I will probably get a new one waterjet cut from 3/8" plate. Might have to do a little dremeling on the swingarm to clearance the teeth but I think I am ok. I will also source some high strength bolts to make sure I don't have any issues and back them up with locknuts.

So I think I will try the swingarm centered for now but leave myself a wide top shock mount so I can shift it over if I decide to go the offset wheel route at a later date. Does mean I will be cutting the top spar on the subframe and remaking that, but fairly minor.

I'm really cruising along on this build. It's amazing how fast things can go when you have a couple builds under your belt. Things are just apparent to me now where as before I would spend days thinking through how I would do something.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:26 AM   #83
OhioPT
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Pete, the reservoir on the Husaberg shock is on the opposite site ;) You can run a shock upside down, but I wouldn't want the reservoir that exposed on a bike that'll be used in the dirt. You can cut the reservoir off, weld in a fitting and use a stainless line to relocate the reservoir where ever you wish.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:16 PM   #84
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Quote:
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Pete, the reservoir on the Husaberg shock is on the opposite site ;) You can run a shock upside down, but I wouldn't want the reservoir that exposed on a bike that'll be used in the dirt. You can cut the reservoir off, weld in a fitting and use a stainless line to relocate the reservoir where ever you wish.
Well those should be easy and cheap to find

Can I come over and steal yours?
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:30 PM   #85
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[QUOTE=sailah;20038119]I

For something like this bike, I'd just as soon give the parts away than try and make money on them, not worth the hassle. Hell I still have wheels off the FZ1, swingarms etc. I'm trying to emulate you Lukas you part-hordin' mofo!!

I take the Arrow muffler and squashed header....how is shipping to 80215?

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Old 12-10-2012, 01:36 PM   #86
OhioPT
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Well those should be easy and cheap to find

Can I come over and steal yours?
lol, good point
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:17 PM   #87
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I take the Arrow muffler and squashed header....how is shipping to 80215?

TooFast
the muffler is gone locally to a buddy that has a Versys. You still want the header? I can't imagine it's worth the shipping as nice ones are $40 on ebay.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:20 PM   #88
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Getting the shock to fit is going to be easy, just need to clearance the spar and maybe weld in a gusset. I still need to run a diagonal to match the other side.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:42 PM   #89
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Time for an update

I machined up a dust cover. It was way more complicated than I thought. I started off with a 3" diameter aluminum rod and turned and hacked until it fit. It's still grinding slightly so I need to clearance some more. Good enough for mock up purposes. The only thing I have left to do on the front end is to press the stem back out and insert a clearance washer to space the lower triple away from the stem just a bit.





Then I hacked up the subframe so the shock would clear. At this point, I'm ready for it to be on two wheels. I took the wheel off the CBR and used it in the Ninja. I took a 20 ton jack and used that instead of the shock to set "ride height". Might be a little stiff



As you see it, I have 26 degrees of rake, seat height is right around 36". Sitting in the stock Ninja seating position, it feels slightly stretched. But just. I slid forward maybe 2" and that's better. I might just have to shape the tank and extend the seat because it felt great sitting there.



Got a good feeling where I want the pegs.





I turned down the original CS sprocket spacer. I think I went a little too far. The chain still needs to come out slightly. I have a 1/4" spacer being cut on a waterjet I pick up monday to test. I think that will be fine, because it's pretty darn close right now. I'll have to clearance the swingarm where the bolts are on the sprocket as they will hit.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:38 AM   #90
Luke
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FWIW I measured a couple of dirt bikes and the ones that feel best when standing have the footpegs at 40% of the way from the rear axle to the front axle. Sitting at the front of the seats puts you right over the footpegs.

In contrast, a Honda XR4 has the pegs forward of that position and it's more comfortable for sitting, but takes more effort to ride standing up; both standing up and staying up.
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