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Old 12-07-2012, 04:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Awesome writing. Kind of perpetuating the myth that a rider's biggest hazard is another vehicle operator- but awesome writing.
In another thread (or possibly another forum.... don't remeber which), the question asked was "What do you consider the greatest hazard while on the road?" A good portion said deer where the greatest hazard. I disagreed -- I see my fellow road users as the greatest hazard.

You will encounter vehicles on the road everytime you go out. You might not encounter a deer.

You will encounter more vehicles than deer.

Deer are just flat out unpredictible -- we know that, except it and live with it, hopefully adjusting our riding in areas and times when a deer encounter is more likely.

Vehicles have rules of the road they are supposed to follow, however many don't and as such they can be just as unpredictible as deer. We make our decisions based on what the rules of the road are supposed to be but when we commit to a manuver and the vehicle suddenly deviates from the rules of the road -- well the outcome can be bad.

Deer are smaller, softer and slower than vehicles. The consequence of hitting a deer is generally less severe than a vehicle.

I don't view it as myth the biggest hazard is the other vehicles on the road (or operaters if you will).
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:59 AM   #17
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Cars are most generally on the road. Where you can see them. Anticipate that they might do something stupid.

They are not in the habit of leaping out of the ditch in front of you. I have also hit deer, 2 different occasions.. I was not riding, I was in my truck or my van both times. I have always managed to avoid the stupid things cars do. In car or bike. Not so for deer

I have stopped the bike to allow a herd to cross this year. I have seen a car hit a deer in front of me a few years ago. Thanks for clearing the way.

So my perception and my experience is deer are more dangerous. It may be wrong, but I am, sticking with it.

Rod
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:45 AM   #18
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My new one: If you're really concerned for my safety, consider donating to my Carbon Fibre Leatt neck brace fund. It's about the one item of safety equipment I don't already own and wear.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:53 AM   #19
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But hang-gliding, man, that shit is crazy.
I LOL'd at this
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:36 AM   #20
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I don't "except it"

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbg326 View Post
I don't see it like that, just emphasizing that cagers should be more aware. The post accepts the fact that there are inherent risks involved in riding, and that the rider must take responsibility for all of the risks that are under his control.
The RIDERS are the ones that need to be "more aware."

Deer are the only thing that I come upon while riding that I have not learned how to deal with well enough to lower the level of concern to a non pulse racing level.


(any rider that rides straight down the road doing nothing to cater to how human vision works IS asking, begging, pleading for a collision) IMO.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
The RIDERS are the ones that need to be "more aware."

Deer are the only thing that I come upon while riding that I have not learned how to deal with well enough to lower the level of concern to a non pulse racing level.


(any rider that rides straight down the road doing nothing to cater to how human vision works IS asking, begging, pleading for a collision) IMO.
This. I see people all the time that don't seem too concerned they are riding in a car's blind spot and then are surprised when a car comes into their lane.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
The RIDERS are the ones that need to be "more aware."



(Source, ODOT Motorcycle Safety Division / TEAM OREGON)


Y'all are welcome to feel or believe whatever you want. I'm certainly willing to grant some people live in areas where deer, or bad driving, are larger parts of the puzzle. But you double both of those numbers, and it's still bad riding that's the biggest concern.

By all means, try to get drivers to be aware of motorcycles and keep your eyes open for wildlife- but let's not ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room: quite a lot of "motorcyclists" can't ride to save their lives.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:25 PM   #23
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Oh, in no way was i discounting the fact that the rider's competence is the primary factor in all of this. I just felt that the OP made it clear that the rider was taking responsibility for all that he could, and that the remaining risk is due in large part to others' driving behavior, hence the emphasis on this.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by dbg326 View Post
Oh, in no way was i discounting the fact that the rider's competence is the primary factor in all of this. I just felt that the OP made it clear that the rider was taking responsibility for all that he could, and that the remaining risk is due in large part to others' driving behavior, hence the emphasis on this.
Thats the problem right there,
A rider needs to take "responsibility" for all hazards, not just the ones they can control.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
I don't see that as a myth. A rider's biggest hazard that he has little or no control over is another vehicle operator. At some times and places that may not be the case -- at dusk on open roads it might be deer instead. But for anyone who rides urban, or commutes, or is in traffic a lot for any reason, cagers are a top threat.

PhilB
Sorry, myth. 75% of all motorcycle fatalities (Oregon, 2012 YTD) were rider error. All things being equal, a rider's biggest hazard is typically their own ego.

But let's ignore the 47% that were just riders crashing by themselves.

60% of multi-vehicle accidents involving a motorcycle were... rider error.

Cagers may be a top threat, but they don't top what we do to ourselves.
I bolded the part of that statement that is relevant here. Sure, your greatest hazard is yourself if you're an idiot. Your hazard to yourself decreases drastically with prudence, training, experience, and gear -- all of which are under your control, and none of which are under anyone else's control. So the article referenced by the OP does not in any way "perpetuate the myth that a rider's biggest hazard is another vehicle operator". The author is talking to a person other than himself, and thus is communicating about hazards that are not himself. The top one of which is .... other vehicle operators.

PhilB
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:21 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
It seems folks here sometimes forget that the majority of motorcycle "owners" are fair weather weekend warriors who ride just to get their adrenalin fix, or as the focus of their social lifestyle.

I didn't really care too much for the editorial, bad drivers are just another part of the riding environment along with many other potential hazards, if they bother you that much, why ride?
You missed the point of the article. He wasn't complaining about bad drivers; he was complaining about people who don't ride saying stupid shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Thats the problem right there,
A rider needs to take "responsibility" for all hazards, not just the ones they can control.
Good thing you put "responsibility" in quotes, because it isn't possible to actually take responsiblity for something you have no control over. You can (and should) take reasonable precautions against it, and that's the best you can do.

None of which has anything to do with the original article, or his *one* line that if the non-rider he's talking to is really concerned about his safety, the best thing he can do is drive attentively. Which, indeed, remains true.

PhilB
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