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[mendoteach]

Originally Posted by Schultz!

Might be a bit off base here but is something to think about.


One of the many jobs I have had was a "Vehicle Testing Tech" for ford motor company. While that title encompasses many things there I spent most of my time working with the "Vehicle Dynamics" groups. (they specialize in the tuning of the suspension systems) I learned a TON about damper control, spring check loads and rates, steering inputs, sway bar efforts, ect ect. The one thing I took from all of it it all truly depends on the calibration of the ass behind the wheel. Engineer X would claim the the "vehicle feels soft and unresponsive" Engineer Y would claim (same vehicle mind you with all the exact same components) the vehicle has robust handling characteristics with a sport ride quality...needless to say the asses were not calibrated to the same standard. With that being said person X setup may not please person Y even if there the same weight bike ect ect.

The springs basic job is to keep the vehicle "suspended" at the correct height vs static weight, its the dampers job to tell the spring how fast it can move. The best way to set up a bikes suspension (as i understand it) is to get the spring rates that are designated for your loaded weight I.E. rider gear big gas tank ect. Once that's done get the rear sag adjusted properly and make sure the forks are not too far compresses or expanded, set all damper clickers to "0" and take a test ride.


Depending on your observations during your ride you will get a idea how the suspension is responding, diving while braking, harsh on initial compression too easy to bottom ect ect. do this for several iterations of your damper adjustments available and make mental and recorded notes during the rides, this right here may be good enough for the old butt dyno, but if it isn't then proceed to plan for a damper re valve.


Re valving dampers realy isnt all that difficult just very time consuming to get it "just right". Ive seen way too many people jump all over the "gold valves" spending wads o cash and being disappointed with the out come because race techs calibrated ass is different from theirs. I would say for (speculating so please don't shoot me) most aplications the stock valves them self's are fine, its the shim stackup that truly effects how fast and how much oil flows past the piston ports causing the damping effect A cheep trick to try before a re valve is if the daper is "harsh feeling" (as in too much damping) to try and change the fluid to a lighter weight, same goes for the inverse if the damper feels"squishy or soft" changing to a higher weight oil can change the dampers performance. If changing the fluid type doesn't "fix" the conditions your seeing I highly recommend reading some tech articles on fork/shock valving/shimming before shelling out huge $$$, like i said it really isn't all that hard just a bit of a learning curve to it.

Good info here Schultz. I especially like your recommendation to change oil weights first. It's easy and relatively cheap. Going to a heavier oil raises and steepens the damping curve. Lighter drops and flattens it. As for after market valving bodies,, the theory behind them is (Race Tech's anyway) that the shim stack should do almost all of the damping. If the bodies end up providing any damping, you end up getting essentially an orifice type damping (ancient tech). Works okay with slow speed damping, horrible with high speed damping. Think about whacking the end of a syringe with your hand versus pushing it slowly.

[mendoteach]

Originally Posted by my6

Google "Mercury Girl".....oh Yessssss

Have I got problems if I think about riding certain bikes as much as I do, say, the Mercury girl? Now that I've thought about it, I would rather ride the Mercury girl than any bike save for a 500cc GP bike.

[mendoteach]

Originally Posted by Schultz!

Fritz you hurt me allot !

Never have I claimed to be one of them Engineers.... I was and am a technician, my brain wasn't removed of all practical common sence at graduation.( i kid i kid)

Well said. Sometimes engineers are so well educated, they become...well fools. A great driver or rider who is articulate enough enough to communicate things with engineers can tell them things they can't always predict with measurements. Sometimes they can recursively explain things the rider perceives, sometimes not. This subjective perception has driven a lot of audio innovation. Talented listeners can hear things that often take engineers a while to understand or develop measurements for. Einstein supposedly said something like, not everything that is measurable is important, and not everything that is important is measurable.

[mendoteach]

Originally Posted by Brown Falcon

I'm really bad at that being content thing. So far my XR has done everything I have asked of it, but I still want to see what I can do to make it better (like a fork brace). I'm only 150 pounds soaking wet, so I haven't had much trouble with the stock springs, but the front end still dives more than I would like.

This is also only my 2nd bike I've owned, and the first I've ridden on the street, so I have a lot of learn still.

On the stock bike, then rear is over damped and the fork is sprung for a 115lb. rider. The rear is workable, the front is under sprung for anyone who could pick up the bike.

[beechum1]

Originally Posted by MentalGuru

I wonder how much a 60hp CW engine done to a new XLR with a CRFX fork swap and a revalved shock would cost.

No comparison.

[beechum1]

Originally Posted by fritzcoinc

Dammit! Thats twice today, well this morning I haverhad my ass kicked!

I think, will bet anyway, you will be able to get an XRL down to about 310/320 pounds.

Kubiak had it down to 299.9 or sum such nonsense.

[mcma111]

Gee Matt. Ya trying to increase your post count or something??

[mendoteach]

Yeah...just trying to catch up....I get busy and don't read for a couple days, then I get board. I don't chase girls on Friday nights anymore (it was fun though)...so what am I to do? Aside from emails here and there this is my social network, and I can't get motivated to go in the garage. Don't worry your post count is safe The carb you're sending me to try, I'm not so sure

[Ben99r1]

I just finished putting on the xr 600 exhaust on my L. The exhaust is missing the end cap. I just had on in the garage, that thing barks loud. Tomorrow am taking on it 45 mile freeway, 18 miles of twisty canyon roads, and about 20 miles of fire roads. I will be taking earplugs just in case.

[ShooterDave]

Originally Posted by Ben99r1

I just finished putting on the xr 600 exhaust on my L. The exhaust is missing the end cap. I just had on in the garage, that thing barks loud. Tomorrow am taking on it 45 mile freeway, 18 miles of twisty canyon roads, and about 20 miles of fire roads. I will be taking earplugs just in case.

You should always wear earplugs regardless. Although it may not seem like its loud in your helmet, even at freeway speeds. The noise level can exceed 100db depending on the helmet. You may not notice it right away, but prolonged exposure will damage your hearing. Just sayin.

[MentalGuru]

Originally Posted by ShooterDave

You should always wear earplugs regardless. Although it may not seem like its loud in your helmet, even at freeway speeds. The noise level can exceed 100db depending on the helmet. You may not notice it right away, but prolonged exposure will damage your hearing. Just sayin.

What???? Did you say something???

[Schultz!]

Originally Posted by mendoteach

Good info here Schultz. I especially like your recommendation to change oil weights first. It's easy and relatively cheap. Going to a heavier oil raises and steepens the damping curve. Lighter drops and flattens it. As for after market valving bodies,, the theory behind them is (Race Tech's anyway) that the shim stack should do almost all of the damping. If the bodies end up providing any damping, you end up getting essentially an orifice type damping (ancient tech). Works okay with slow speed damping, horrible with high speed damping. Think about whacking the end of a syringe with your hand versus pushing it slowly.

Thanks for the input! From what I understood back when I was working with that stuff more often the piston ports are the "end all be all" of oil flow as you describe with the syringe, even the gold valves will create the same condition if moved through there travel fast enough. Depending on your condition in theory If your experiencing too much High speed compression you can just drill the stock piston ports to a larger size and then adjust your shim stack accordingly to account for the higher volume of oil allowing to flow through the piston ports.

Just saying this crap for discussions sake not knocking the fine products over at race tech or the services your local suspension guy offers!

I just tend to be DYI to a fault at times

[Schultz!]

Originally Posted by mendoteach

Well said. Sometimes engineers are so well educated, they become...well fools. A great driver or rider who is articulate enough enough to communicate things with engineers can tell them things they can't always predict with measurements. Sometimes they can recursively explain things the rider perceives, sometimes not. This subjective perception has driven a lot of audio innovation. Talented listeners can hear things that often take engineers a while to understand or develop measurements for. Einstein supposedly said something like, not everything that is measurable is important, and not everything that is important is measurable.

Hehehe hit the nail on the head there, I have been working with the engineering community for over 10 years now.

[bp_josh]

How complicated is it to take the swingarm off and put it back on? Will I have to wrestle with the rear shock (compress it or something) to reassemble it? My bike lift is a floor jack with a piece of wood on it to go under the bash plate.

If I do take it off, I assume I should either re-grease or replace a couple parts while I'm in there right? What will need attention?

I want to paint it, but I'm trying to decide if it's worth the hassle.

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by bp_josh

How complicated is it to take the swingarm off and put it back on? Will I have to wrestle with the rear shock (compress it or something) to reassemble it? My bike lift is a floor jack with a piece of wood on it to go under the bash plate.

If I do take it off, I assume I should either re-grease or replace a couple parts while I'm in there right? What will need attention?

I want to paint it, but I'm trying to decide if it's worth the hassle.

Unless your swingarms badly scarred/scraped up, or you know you need to replace some parts in it, I wouldn't pull it just to paint. Its a dirt bike, its nice to have them look good within reason, but unlike a streetbike, they're going to fall over plenty, get scratched/scraped up from brush/tree's/rocks etc.
Plus your painted swingarm will scratch up and peel faster than you'd like......you need to powdercoat it if you want to color it. If you want something pretty to ride that you can make look sweet, and keep it sweet, get a streetbike My streetbikes look pristine.....my xrl looks good, but I don't worry NEAR as much about its looks as my streetbikes.
Personally I'd get a couple of cool swingarms stickers, slap them on and be happy......thats what I just did