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Old 12-08-2012, 09:09 AM   #15166
ducnut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bross View Post
Low center of gravity I guess but I put it up to mostly rider. I suck at sand but was actually doing OK on a few stretches before that one. On the pegs, steering with my feet etc. was just getting a bit of confidence when I crashed. That rider just sat through everything, feet never left the pegs and he wasn't slow either as seen in the video. I always think of Fred Rau's article at times like that...

It Ain't the tool
I just get to thinking about a Harley's wide, smooth tires, low center of gravity, and (guessing) relaxed steering geometry allowing it to have better stabiltiy and just "float" through the sand. Seems to me that skinny 21" front wheels would knife through the sand. IDK, as I just don't have much experience in sand. Thinking out loud, more than anything.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:47 AM   #15167
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If anyone has an OEM left turn signal and/or left plastic shroud piece that goes around the tank and that the left signal mounts to I am interested in buying.
Thanks
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:53 AM   #15168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
I just get to thinking about a Harley's wide, smooth tires, low center of gravity, and (guessing) relaxed steering geometry allowing it to have better stabiltiy and just "float" through the sand.
I'd also attribute a lot to the bike here. The big adventure bikes often aren't as great when it comes to tough conditions. They are heavy, are really high and have a lot of weight up high (big fuel tanks + luggage). People with these bikes tend to pack a top case, which makes things worse.

Some of the folks in that video had more luggage than I would take on a six month long trip, like big cases, huge pack rolls on the rear. The HD has all the weight super low, a light front end due to steering geometry, pretty much the weight distribution you want to have in sand. Also, the wider front tire might not "track" as well, but it also doesn't pull you out of line as easily in sand.

A lot of the trailies, especially the Tiger, have fairly aggressive steering geometry to keep them handle okay on the road even with the big 19" or 21" front wheels. Just thinking about it - doesn't the XC have more aggressive fork angle than the Roadie? The big GS has more aggressive steering than the R model and so on. That's all counterproductive in sand and you need much more skills on these bikes than on something that has an okay geometry for sand to start with.

What we can do with our Tigers can be done with pretty much any standard bike. Often even better on these as they aren't optimized for any kind of performance. At least that's my experience ...

A ride like the one in the video I wouldn't want to do on my Tiger. On a big KTM, maybe, but not on my Tiger or on an XC. It just doesn't appeal to me to throw around a bike like these in such conditions. Hurts me just looking at how these poor bikes are abused ... and no, they are NOT meant to handle this. That's marketing BS. They are build so that they look like they will handle this.

I'd prefer a KTM 690 Enduro R with a Giant Loop bag. Or a WR250R with soft luggage. But not one of those 550+ lbs (including luggage) monsters.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:27 AM   #15169
TerraUnFirma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
I'd also attribute a lot to the bike here. The big adventure bikes often aren't as great when it comes to tough conditions. They are heavy, are really high and have a lot of weight up high (big fuel tanks + luggage). People with these bikes tend to pack a top case, which makes things worse.

Some of the folks in that video had more luggage than I would take on a six month long trip, like big cases, huge pack rolls on the rear. The HD has all the weight super low, a light front end due to steering geometry, pretty much the weight distribution you want to have in sand. Also, the wider front tire might not "track" as well, but it also doesn't pull you out of line as easily in sand.

A lot of the trailies, especially the Tiger, have fairly aggressive steering geometry to keep them handle okay on the road even with the big 19" or 21" front wheels. Just thinking about it - doesn't the XC have more aggressive fork angle than the Roadie? The big GS has more aggressive steering than the R model and so on. That's all counterproductive in sand and you need much more skills on these bikes than on something that has an okay geometry for sand to start with.

What we can do with our Tigers can be done with pretty much any standard bike. Often even better on these as they aren't optimized for any kind of performance. At least that's my experience ...
A ride like the one in the video I wouldn't want to do on my Tiger. On a big KTM, maybe, but not on my Tiger or on an XC. It just doesn't appeal to me to throw around a bike like these in such conditions. Hurts me just looking at how these poor bikes are abused ... and no, they are NOT meant to handle this. That's marketing BS. They are build so that they look like they will handle this.

I'd prefer a KTM 690 Enduro R with a Giant Loop bag. Or a WR250R with soft luggage. But not one of those 550+ lbs (including luggage) monsters.
What he said...in all areas. I just picked up a WR250R from a guy that had it set up for sand (lives in FL) and had done some of the Western TAT. He had 17" (I think) and fat tires ala TW200 and he was breezing along in the sand and talcum powder out West while the guys with 21" wheels were struggling. Having some experience riding sand, I can tell you that skinny tires and high CG don't mix. The guy on the Harley was breezin due to fat tires and low CG...very stable combo. You've got to maintain enough speed to keep the front (and rear) from plowing into the sand...it's like a boat coming up on plane vs pushing a huge bow wave.

Not to offend anyone here, but when I see these "adventure" bikes with a big top case perched up high on the rear end, I have to laugh. I use a Giant Loop Great Basin and load all the heaviest stuff down in the bottom on each side...huge difference in how the bike handles. The only things that go up high are lightweight.

It's raining in N.Ga today...bummer! Think I'll go take the new WRR apart and get to know it...PO did a lot of electrical mods and that makes me a little nervous...most folks don't understand electrons!

Cheers!
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:48 AM   #15170
bross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
I'd also attribute a lot to the bike here. The big adventure bikes often aren't as great when it comes to tough conditions. They are heavy, are really high and have a lot of weight up high (big fuel tanks + luggage). People with these bikes tend to pack a top case, which makes things worse.

Some of the folks in that video had more luggage than I would take on a six month long trip, like big cases, huge pack rolls on the rear. The HD has all the weight super low, a light front end due to steering geometry, pretty much the weight distribution you want to have in sand. Also, the wider front tire might not "track" as well, but it also doesn't pull you out of line as easily in sand.

A lot of the trailies, especially the Tiger, have fairly aggressive steering geometry to keep them handle okay on the road even with the big 19" or 21" front wheels. Just thinking about it - doesn't the XC have more aggressive fork angle than the Roadie? The big GS has more aggressive steering than the R model and so on. That's all counterproductive in sand and you need much more skills on these bikes than on something that has an okay geometry for sand to start with.

What we can do with our Tigers can be done with pretty much any standard bike. Often even better on these as they aren't optimized for any kind of performance. At least that's my experience ...

A ride like the one in the video I wouldn't want to do on my Tiger. On a big KTM, maybe, but not on my Tiger or on an XC. It just doesn't appeal to me to throw around a bike like these in such conditions. Hurts me just looking at how these poor bikes are abused ... and no, they are NOT meant to handle this. That's marketing BS. They are build so that they look like they will handle this.

I'd prefer a KTM 690 Enduro R with a Giant Loop bag. Or a WR250R with soft luggage. But not one of those 550+ lbs (including luggage) monsters.
I wouldn't take my Tiger on a ride like that again either. We rode on the BC Big Trailie ride the year before and it was on much easier terrain and the Tiger would have been perfect. This years ride was a challenge with steep rocky ascents and descents and that bit of sand. I would take my DR650 on that type of ride again. Other than the sand though I had no trouble riding the Tiger through it. My only real complaint with the Tiger in those conditions was the air filter. I knew about the stepper motor and sure enough on day 2 my bike wouldn't idle, but a quick squirt of WD40 got the bike running fine for the remainder of the 4 days. But the access to the air filter is incredibly complicated and I sure wouldn't want to be doing that on the side of the trail or even in a motel paring lot on a longer trip. I have bought the pre filter from Australia so at least that shouldn't be an issue as much anymore.

I don't feel I abused my bike it came through that tough ride none the worse for wear but I do agree, for that challenging terrain, it'll be my DR I'll be riding, but it is nice to know that I CAN make it through stuff like that on the Tiger if needed.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #15171
ducnut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
I'd also attribute a lot to the bike here. The big adventure bikes often aren't as great when it comes to tough conditions. They are heavy, are really high and have a lot of weight up high (big fuel tanks + luggage). People with these bikes tend to pack a top case, which makes things worse.

Some of the folks in that video had more luggage than I would take on a six month long trip, like big cases, huge pack rolls on the rear. The HD has all the weight super low, a light front end due to steering geometry, pretty much the weight distribution you want to have in sand. Also, the wider front tire might not "track" as well, but it also doesn't pull you out of line as easily in sand.

A lot of the trailies, especially the Tiger, have fairly aggressive steering geometry to keep them handle okay on the road even with the big 19" or 21" front wheels. Just thinking about it - doesn't the XC have more aggressive fork angle than the Roadie? The big GS has more aggressive steering than the R model and so on. That's all counterproductive in sand and you need much more skills on these bikes than on something that has an okay geometry for sand to start with.

What we can do with our Tigers can be done with pretty much any standard bike. Often even better on these as they aren't optimized for any kind of performance. At least that's my experience ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraUnFirma View Post
What he said...in all areas. I just picked up a WR250R from a guy that had it set up for sand (lives in FL) and had done some of the Western TAT. He had 17" (I think) and fat tires ala TW200 and he was breezing along in the sand and talcum powder out West while the guys with 21" wheels were struggling. Having some experience riding sand, I can tell you that skinny tires and high CG don't mix. The guy on the Harley was breezin due to fat tires and low CG...very stable combo. You've got to maintain enough speed to keep the front (and rear) from plowing into the sand...it's like a boat coming up on plane vs pushing a huge bow wave.
All of that makes sense. Thanks, guys.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:58 AM   #15172
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Originally Posted by bross View Post
I don't feel I abused my bike it came through that tough ride none the worse for wear but I do agree, for that challenging terrain, it'll be my DR I'll be riding, but it is nice to know that I CAN make it through stuff like that on the Tiger if needed.
Hmm. Somebody made it through on a Harley. You CAN probably get a Goldwing through if you absolutely had to, so I don't understand that point. Years ago I was riding with a friend in Europe, he was on a very old Suzuki UJM, I was on a Transalp dual sport. He rode circles around me in the dirt sections. We switched bikes, I rode circles around him. It had nothing to do with the rider ...

What did I learn? Adventure bikes are more for long stretches on bad roads and for hauling lots of luggage comfortably than for anything else. As that's exactly what I'm looking for they are great for me ...
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:24 PM   #15173
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That vid was awsome! One of the best I have seen in awhile!
+1 Great video
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:58 PM   #15174
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Wicked Picked up my new 2012 Tiger 800XC.

Thanks everyone for their helpful comments regarding the T800XC. Picked mine up from the dealership a couple weeks ago and it rides so awesome. Got center stand, fog lights, heated grips, radiator guard, and sump guard. Waiting for the touring windscreen to come in. Took it out on LA highways in heavy winds and will be glad for the increased protection. Already planning my first big ride with a buddy to Death Valley sometime after New Years. Here's a pic of the performer off Mulholland Drive. Couldn't be happier with my decision. Now just need to get some soft bags or panniers.

[IMGphoto-2[/IMG]
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:37 PM   #15175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraUnFirma View Post
Not to offend anyone here, but when I see these "adventure" bikes with a big top case perched up high on the rear end, I have to laugh.

It's raining in N.Ga today...bummer! Think I'll go take the new WRR apart and get to know it...PO did a lot of electrical mods and that makes me a little nervous...most folks don't understand electrons!
No offense taken. I have one of those big tail bags, only because I had it handy, and I only put lightweight stuff in it. Makes no difference to handling. Did you buy your WR250 from an inmate? I might know something about it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:48 AM   #15176
swimmer
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I broke my clutch lever. If I can't find a used OEM one I'll go aftermarket. Has anyone put on an aftermarket clutch lever they are happy with/if so what kind?
Thanks
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:13 AM   #15177
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I broke my clutch lever. If I can't find a used OEM one I'll go aftermarket. Has anyone put on an aftermarket clutch lever they are happy with/if so what kind?
Thanks
I broke the end off of mine as well awhile back. I trimmed a little bit more off of the end and made it a shorty lever. Works much better. I only use one or two fingers to pull in the clutch anyway.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:52 AM   #15178
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I broke my clutch lever. If I can't find a used OEM one I'll go aftermarket. Has anyone put on an aftermarket clutch lever they are happy with/if so what kind?
Thanks
the2wheels on ebay, I've had mine on for 12K miles and still going strong.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/the2wheels-A...345708&vxp=mtr

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Old 12-11-2012, 10:46 AM   #15179
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Funny how that seems to happen

I got my hands on a Triumph Adjustable Clutch Lever from Motorcycle Accessory Discount Super Store
for $30.00. Fit right on and looks like the bike came with it.

Took the broke end piece and drilled a hole in it. Now it hangs proudly(?) from my key ring. It's my
way of reminding me not to be such a dumbass.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:14 AM   #15180
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the2wheels on ebay, I've had mine on for 12K miles and still going strong.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/the2wheels-A...345708&vxp=mtr

Jerry
I bought these for mine in Long they are great valur for money
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