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Old 12-02-2012, 08:17 PM   #3181
fxstbiluigi
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It all comes down to what you are welding.
A tack can be anything from a quick zap from a wire machine, think exhaust system, to hold the parts together. Or an actual weld such as needed to hold two pieces of pipe in alignment for welding. Or a short weld to keep two pieces of sheetmetal from warping so far apart that they can't be welded. Or heavy (1") Plate from warping from the heat input.
Some tacks can be small and light and some need to be considerably more substancial it all depends on the application and circumstances.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:09 PM   #3182
dmaxmike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
It's fine for exhaust, don't weld a roll cage like that or anything your life depends on. We call that WyoWelding(Wyotech teaches that and it's technically wrong), the weakest part of a weld is the start when it's the coldest and that technique gives you a full weld of cold starts...wrong, but fine for exhaust.
I never learned that there? Must be that west coast wyotech. Then again i only used a MIG machine long enough to pass the requirements for it then all I used was TIG because thatís what i wanted to learn and be good at. Most high end race shops donít even have a MIG in the building. Its real fun tacking together a full class one car with a TIG torch, talk about sun burn!
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:10 PM   #3183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxmike View Post
Most high end race shops donít even have a MIG in the building.
Most (if not all) NASCAR chassis are MIG welded. A quality MIG weld is more than strong enough for roll cage work as well as suspension components. I've seen my share of crappy TIG welds in offroad racing. Multiple pass welds where the root pass is cold and fills gaps in poorly notched/fitted tube and then a "sic Bro weave" washed over the top. Total crap strength wise, but looks like a million bucks.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:16 AM   #3184
dmaxmike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
Most (if not all) NASCAR chassis are MIG welded. A quality MIG weld is more than strong enough for roll cage work as well as suspension components. I've seen my share of crappy TIG welds in offroad racing. Multiple pass welds where the root pass is cold and fills gaps in poorly notched/fitted tube and then a "sic Bro weave" washed over the top. Total crap strength wise, but looks like a million bucks.
yes all NASCAR chassis are MIG welded. When you smash them at the rate they do you have to. But there is a lot of TIG work in those shops as well. But in the off road world and rally and everything else but roundly round racing its TIG welding for the most part because of its streith (when done properly) and the fact that most chassis are made of 4130 which is not a fan of MIG welding.



the "Sic Bro weave" made me LOL because i have seen my fair share of that as well. Everyone in so-cal with a flat billed hat and a tube bender is a fucking car builder bro!
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:24 AM   #3185
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:50 PM   #3186
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gas tank

I was thinking of cutting a gas tank open. Repairing the pin holes and inserting a wedge shape piece of metal to the tank to increase the capacity
Good welder Miller 211 mit. Noob welder who has a ironworker friend who will help me

Can this be done?
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:53 PM   #3187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxmike View Post
yes all NASCAR chassis are MIG welded. When you smash them at the rate they do you have to.
This is exactly my point, MIG welding is more than strong enough on cages that can take the bashing NASCRAP doles out. The quality of the workmanship is more important than if it is TIG or MIG.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:55 PM   #3188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkingbear View Post
I was thinking of cutting a gas tank open. Repairing the pin holes and inserting a wedge shape piece of metal to the tank to increase the capacity
Good welder Miller 211 mit. Noob welder who has a ironworker friend who will help me

Can this be done?
Of course it can be done, the question is do you or your friend have the skills to do it right and not make a fugly mess?
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:22 PM   #3189
David R
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Gas Tank

I refuse to weld gas tanks any more. Its not worth the risk to me.
Do as you wish. Have the tank steam cleaned out by a radiator shop before cutting it open. Purge the tank with Co2 or welding gas.

Look closely at the pin holes. The area is usually bigger than you think. This can be repaired with a good two part epoxy like 3M Structural adhesive available from Napa and other places.

Can you put .023 wire in the Miller 211? Do you have C/25? Can you weld thin sheet?

Good luck, Take pictures

David
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:08 PM   #3190
David R
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Laugh Its been quiet here.

Bolt was sticking out of the head. I weled a nut to it but the bolt broke off again in the head



SO I welded a tit to it.



and a nut to the tit




I did a bunch.



Miller Passport .030 wire. 280 ipm about 130 amps
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:23 PM   #3191
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Just about to deploy the new TIG on some 4130 tube for the 1st time. Making a simple soft pannier rack for a friend's XT250 out of 5/8 dia .065 wall tube. The design should be plenty strong even if my welds aren't 100% but it's always nice to do stuff right. I will practice a bunch before starting on the job. I've built a couple of similar racks that have worked well but have had a mate do the actual tube welding as we didn't have the gear then.

The key joints will be where the tube is butted against the mild steel bushes I have machined up for mounting points. Will common garden ER70S-2 filler do the job ok? Post heat to cherry red with the torch for max awesomeness? Any other tips for the tube welding n00b?

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Old 12-12-2012, 03:27 PM   #3192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benesesso View Post
Right on. 4130 is best gas welded, but TIG also works well. If anyone wants to know why, just ask.
Ok i'm asking
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:21 PM   #3193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
The key joints will be where the tube is butted against the mild steel bushes I have machined up for mounting points. Will common garden ER70S-2 filler do the job ok? Post heat to cherry red with the torch for max awesomeness? Any other tips for the tube welding n00b?

Cheers
Clint
ER70S-2 will work just fine, Just take your time and do a nice job.
No need for all the post weld drama...just weld it up nice and you're done.

Opinions Vary...I don't know all the fancy text book stuff, but I have a few years of actual hands on TIG exp.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:04 PM   #3194
LexLeroy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benesesso View Post
Beautiful looking, but there could be a problem with them. Brazed joints work very well when stressed/loaded in shear (lap joints), but not so well in tension. Tension is where welding shines. Your lugs appear to me to relying on the tensile properties of brazing, and they may fail.

Well made brazed joints have lots of overlap/shear area, as do well made adhesively bonded joints.
Good points. Here's the head tube lug jigged and heat-sinked prior to brazing - inserted rather than butted in order to get a better mechanical joint with some overlap. The brass flowed nicely into the joint - so much so that I needed to chuck the thing into the lathe afterward and clean up the ID with a boring bar.



And here's the head tube with the finished lugs silver brazed into place -



The homemade lugs join the sloping top tube to the (steering) head tube and the seat tube using silver brazing (56% cad free). The sloping top tube is mitered on both ends and butts against the head tube and seat tube inside the lugs. Since the top tube is under compression and the ends butt solidly against the head and seat tubes I'm thinkin' that I'm OK - the lugs aren't carrying much of any sort of load.

The bottom (lower sloping) tube is under tension, but that's silver brazed into an American-made investment cast lug at the head tube and into an American-made investment cast bottom bracket (where the pedals go).

But to your point, at least one builder that I know of who uses brass fillet brazing instead of lugs has experienced a failure of the junction between the head tube and the down tube on a bike that got used hard - a mountain bike. Fortunately I wasn't involved.
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LexLeroy screwed with this post 12-13-2012 at 09:22 AM
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:30 AM   #3195
dmaxmike
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That is quite a good explanation of the art of 4130 welding! That whole undercarriage was built out of 4130H?
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