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Old 12-12-2012, 11:02 AM   #61
Barry
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Practice, practice, practice. Make sure you are practicing the RIGHT skills the right way. Practicing improper skills is not worth the time invested.

With that said, ABS when possible sure helps.

Knowing how to ride ANY bike you get on, with or without electronic/mechanical aids, puts you ahead of the curve. Such as if your front brake stops working, you better know how to maximize that rear brake and modulate it, esp. if you are on a non-ABS equipped bike. Unusual, yes. But if it happens, you are screwed if you haven't practiced.

So I say again....

Practice, practice, practice. Make sure you are practicing the RIGHT skills the right way. Practicing improper skills is not worth the time invested.

Barry
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:02 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
This isn't a ABS verses non-ABS debate.
Only if you don't make it one.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:10 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
practice, practice, practice. Make sure you are practicing the right skills the right way. Practicing improper skills is not worth the time invested.

With that said, abs when possible sure helps.

Knowing how to ride any bike you get on, with or without electronic/mechanical aids, puts you ahead of the curve. Such as if your front brake stops working, you better know how to maximize that rear brake and modulate it, esp. If you are on a non-abs equipped bike. Unusual, yes. But if it happens, you are screwed if you haven't practiced.

So i say again....

Practice, practice, practice. Make sure you are practicing the right skills the right way. Practicing improper skills is not worth the time invested.

Barry
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:19 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliken View Post
And comparing your n00b riding girlfriend to Rossi is just ridiculous!

That is like trying to teach a new offroad rider to get though a tough section by showing them videos of Knighter doing it in a race.
Psheh. Rossi is a total poser squid, just look at his helmet. Anyone can do what he does.

If he doesn't need to use his rear brake with a narrowly focused race bike on slicks and many world championships in his pocket, no one else needs to either.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
lots of bad advice here . threshold braking with both brakes should be done every ride. it should be automatic. most bikes are not sport bikes . most bikes are cruisers and standards. also to the op a klr front brake is more than adequate you just need a strong hand.
Where's the bad advice I gave? First I said

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerhonky
If your bike will do a "stoppie," as most bikes will, then you can get 100% of your braking power out of your front tire. It's just a matter of learning where that threshold is and being able to stay just under it reliably.
That's not advice, that's just fact. I was not advising the OP or his girlfriend to practice stoppies, and I doubt he would have read it that way.

Then I said

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerhonky
Until your girlfriend becomes an expert at stoppies though, she should be advised to practice emergency stops using both brakes.
which I think is the same thing you said, except you called it "threshold braking" and added the qualifier that it should be done on every ride.

So basically, fuck you, stu.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:30 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post

Well there is very little weight on the rear wheel during heavy braking, making it very, very easy to lock up.
Not if you practice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaws justice View Post
+2
+10000 squared.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kerhonky
If your bike will do a "stoppie," as most bikes will, then you can get 100% of your braking power out of your front tire. It's just a matter of learning where that threshold is and being able to stay just under it reliably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerhonky
That's not advice, that's just fact.
That's not good advise or a fact..Imagine how much of a shorter distance you could stop if you used both brakes. Tell ya what, you go try a quick stop using both brakes and then using your stoppie technique and get back to us.

Using that line of thinking you could also say that Tying a rope to your bike attached to a cinder block and tossing it off the bike at speed, the cinder block will give you 100% stopping power...
Or using your feet to stop with will give you 100% stopping power...but you'll go thru a lot of boots using that technique...
Or just letting gravity slow you to a stop...gravity supplied 100% stopping power...
Or letting engine braking bring you to a stop...the engine supplied 100% of stopping power

Using both brakes is still 100% but will stop you faster...

Yeah, I know...fuck you, bwalsh.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:10 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
I am not talking about going around in a parking lot and using the back brake, I am talking about on the freeway and coming to a stop.

I have been telling my girlfriend not to use the rear brake on the street. Her front brake is more than enough to stop and she just needs to smoothly keep applying more pressure on it to stop, and even harder to stop faster.

The point of telling her not to use it during normal stops is because during an emergency brake, it is very hard to feather the rear brake and not lock it up and by not using it everyday, she won't slam down on it during an emergency brake out of habit.

So what is your opinion on this matter on teaching beginners about braking?

Personally, I very rarely use the rear brake.
You're trying to get your girlfriend to copy your bad habits. You should be encouraging her to use both brakes and learn to use them properly.

Given your rather muddy understanding of the matter, and because you have a personal relationship with your girlfriend, I would further suggest that YOU don't take on the role of teacher at all.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:14 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
The tons of motorcycle racers do not use the rear brake during straight up and down braking into the corner.

Their job is to slow down as much as possible in the shortest amount of time and they don't use the rear brake.

...
What makes you think these guys aren't using their rear brakes?
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:26 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
It's not bullshit. Maybe the exact percentage is but in a controlled environment the front brake will generate a LOT more stopping power than the rear.
That's why "70/30" is bullshit. On a bike that can do a stoppie, it can be 100/0. IF you are throwing enough front brake to pull a stoppie, and IF the available traction allows it. Beginners are not going to (intentionally) be pulling stoppies in normal street riding. And if your beginner pal finds themselves needing to slow down while turning, do you really want them to grab a bigger and bigger handful of front because they were told how dangerous it was to use the rear because they might lock it?

Quote:
How would you explain the front verses rear brake stopping force to a beginner?
Uhh, how about "the front brake has most of the stopping power". And if you need to go further "as you decelerate, the weight of the bike shifts to the front, giving it more grip". You do not need to assign a false fixed percentage to it.

Learn to ride the bike and use all the controls, don't be afraid to use one as major as the rear brake out of fear of not being able to use it properly.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:26 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
What makes you think these guys aren't using their rear brakes?
I am not saying all racers don't use their rear brakes, but most dont.

In that picture rossi is clealy not using the rear brake........
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:28 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
His goal is to stop as fast as possible. That is her goal also.

No not really. 99.99% of the time you hardly need to stop "as fast as possible" on the street. Unless you ride like a stunta squid. Do you also need to stop your car 'as fast as possible' at every stop?
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:29 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
And if your beginner pal finds themselves needing to slow down while turning, do you really want them to grab a bigger and bigger handful of front because they were told how dangerous it was to use the rear because they might lock it?
Yes, they can use the front brake when turning. That is what trail braking is, you just have to use more handlebar force to turn.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:30 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
I am not saying all racers don't use their rear brakes, but most dont.
Your GF isn't riding MotoGP.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:30 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
Yes, they can use the front brake when turning. That is what trail braking is, you just have to use more handlebar force to turn.
And why can't they use the rear too?
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:32 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
No not really. 99.99% of the time you hardly need to stop "as fast as possible" on the street. Unless you ride like a stunta squid. Do you also need to stop your car 'as fast as possible' at every stop?
This whole topic is so she has the right habits when emergency braking, which is stopping as fast as possible. You can do whatever brake combo you want when coming to a normal stop, but if you are always using the rear brake, in a panic braking stop they are used to pressing the rear brake and then they could press it to much and lock it.
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