ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > The Garage
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-25-2012, 05:19 AM   #241
100mpg
This sentance intent
 
100mpg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: ionally finished in this space.
Oddometer: 16,918
What is the aluminum powder for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by therivermonster View Post
To make the epoxy top coat I use Cabosil, aluminum powder, and epoxy.
Cabosil.

Then I mix in just a little bit of aluminum powder.






After the epoxy top coat was mixed up, I brushed it on.




Next, I brushed on a layer of epoxy, and then set the roving first in the corners, and then all over the surface of the mold.



...
__________________
Don't drive like my brother!
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth" - Steve McQueen
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255). DSI #694
100mpg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 08:47 AM   #242
beechum1
Beastly Adventurer
 
beechum1's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Not home in Tijuana
Oddometer: 7,961
I used exclusively the products I mentioned before. The Adtech ES201pc surface coat, then the powdered cotton for a good mechanical bond directly on the mold surface. A layer of cloth and caposil in the hard turns, then lam 1/2" thick with the epoxy resin and CSM. I would let the surface coat tack, about an hour depending on weather, then let the layer of cloth tack, about a day because of the resin we used, then do the entire rest of the layup at once. It was messy though. We lost maybe a quart or less of resin to the ground

My experience was very narrow in that I used the same process for the years I made molds. So much that, when I go to make new molds for my new project ill make them with the same mats I used before. It'll cost about 4x as much to make them but they'll last and they'll be strong.

The molds I made, a few times we retired some, we tested them. We threw them, jumped on them, drove on them and they held up with the exception of the scratches you'd expect from the concrete floor they were abused on.
__________________
Rally Moto Kit /// Vendor Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingdutchman177 View Post
I used to say "one day" a lot. But then I got scared I would wait one day too long. So I am doing it all now
beechum1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 09:42 AM   #243
therivermonster OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
therivermonster's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Oddometer: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100mpg View Post
What is the aluminum powder for?
The aluminum powder makes the surface of the epoxy harder, and adds color.
__________________
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

My Virgin ADV Trip
, Rocks Flyin', Me Cryin', and God Looking On - A WABDR Adventure, Fun With Carbon Fiber
therivermonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 09:45 AM   #244
therivermonster OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
therivermonster's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Oddometer: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by beechum1 View Post
I used exclusively the products I mentioned before. The Adtech ES201pc surface coat, then the powdered cotton for a good mechanical bond directly on the mold surface. A layer of cloth and caposil in the hard turns, then lam 1/2" thick with the epoxy resin and CSM. I would let the surface coat tack, about an hour depending on weather, then let the layer of cloth tack, about a day because of the resin we used, then do the entire rest of the layup at once. It was messy though. We lost maybe a quart or less of resin to the ground

My experience was very narrow in that I used the same process for the years I made molds. So much that, when I go to make new molds for my new project ill make them with the same mats I used before. It'll cost about 4x as much to make them but they'll last and they'll be strong.

The molds I made, a few times we retired some, we tested them. We threw them, jumped on them, drove on them and they held up with the exception of the scratches you'd expect from the concrete floor they were abused on.
That's right. I forgot that you posted about that process before. Epoxy does make some strong molds, and at .5", that should pretty much take anything that you could throw at it.
__________________
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

My Virgin ADV Trip
, Rocks Flyin', Me Cryin', and God Looking On - A WABDR Adventure, Fun With Carbon Fiber
therivermonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 09:58 AM   #245
100mpg
This sentance intent
 
100mpg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: ionally finished in this space.
Oddometer: 16,918
product idea, shoulder and knee armor protection?
Or I like the idea of a dish to throw your keys or change into. Make one look like a pumpkin and use it as a Halloween dish?
__________________
Don't drive like my brother!
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth" - Steve McQueen
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255). DSI #694
100mpg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 02:16 PM   #246
PaulGir
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Oddometer: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by klx_dude View Post
If your using gte spray bottle as a mold you didn't say anything about putting on mould release agent ?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 2
Bottles like that are invariably polyethylene (PE) resin will not stick to it.Same for Polypropylene.The resin will saturate the paper label and pull it off.
PaulGir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 08:52 AM   #247
therivermonster OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
therivermonster's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Oddometer: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100mpg View Post
product idea, shoulder and knee armor protection?
Or I like the idea of a dish to throw your keys or change into. Make one look like a pumpkin and use it as a Halloween dish?
I have thought about making armor, specifically a version of a pressure suit. That coule be a fun project. I took the bowl to work and use it as a candy bowl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGir View Post
Bottles like that are invariably polyethylene (PE) resin will not stick to it.Same for Polypropylene.The resin will saturate the paper label and pull it off.
Suprisingly the resin didn't pull the label off. Must have been the wax and PVA.
__________________
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

My Virgin ADV Trip
, Rocks Flyin', Me Cryin', and God Looking On - A WABDR Adventure, Fun With Carbon Fiber
therivermonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 08:55 AM   #248
therivermonster OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
therivermonster's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Oddometer: 319
Time has been a slim comodity lately, but I have managed to get some work done in the shop.

I mounted the final test version of the exhaust shroud. So far it is holding up very well.


Then it was time to finish up the BMW X 650 chain guard mold.

I applied the gelcoat to the back side of the mold after I had removed the flanges from the previous side.


Then I layed it up with mostly fiberglass and finished with some carbon fiber scraps that I had laying around to add a bit of strength.


After the second side set up over night, I drilled the bolt holes, and trimmed the top flange.




Next, I pulled the whole mold off the mount. Here you can see the original chain guard in both parts of the mold.


I pulled off all the plastic flanges and seperated the mold halves.



Next came the job of trimming the ragged edges of the mold. The mold is pretty thick (averag 1/8th" thick), so the cutting was slow with the Dremel and the dust was going everywhere. I can't imagine not wearing a respirator and protective eye wear.

Here is the still dirty mold, but trimmed.


Scrubbed the mold in the sink to remove the PVA and clay. The epoxy "gelcoat" is very hard and the abrasive scrubby did not harm it in the least.

Here is the clean mold bolted together, ready to be waxed, PVAd and layed up to make a part.




The shape of this mold is fairly complex, and to be honest, I'm probably a little over my head with this one. Or, I suppose that it could be said that this part probably isn't even composite friendly, but you know me. Why not give it a shot and learn a thing or two. That's why I do all this stuff anyway.

I spent a good part of a couple of days trying to figure out how best to lay the fabric in the mold for the finished part. I finally decided that it would be best to lay it up with multiple pieces in order for the fabric to lay in the contours of the mold. I used pieces of aluminum foil to create templates.

Here the four individual pieces of foil are placed in the mold to ensure full fabric coverage.


Here are the four pieces layed flat.


Next I traced the foil templates onto poster board in order to create rigid templates.


Then I used these templates to cut out the carbon and glass fiber with a rotary cutter. BTW, a rotary cutter and cutting mat work much faster and is much easier than using scissors. I'll never go back.


If you have a 90 degree angle, the rotarty cutter only partially cuts that junction, so you have to finish the cut with a razor knife.


This part is made up of 6 layers. Actually the part is much thicker in most places due to overlap, but this is good because the part needs to be strong. Erik crashes a lot.

The first layer which is the facing layer is 2x2 high density 3k carbon fabric from Solar Composites. This carbon is very nice, and very high quality. When you look at it compared to the discount stuff that I have been using from US Composites, it's very easily to tell the difference. The second layer is the US Composites 2x2 twill CF. Third and fourth layers are 2x2 twill 8.5oz fiberglass, and the last two layers are more of the discount 2x2 5.7oz carbon.

Here we can see the fabric and vacumm bagging materials ready for action. You can also see the vacumm bag that I made for this project.




Finally the mold was waxed, PVAd, and layed up. After all the layers had been placed into the mold, I sealed it up in the vacumm bag and placed it under the heat lamps for a little cure help (cold temps).




I'll post more when I pull the part and trim it up.
__________________
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

My Virgin ADV Trip
, Rocks Flyin', Me Cryin', and God Looking On - A WABDR Adventure, Fun With Carbon Fiber

therivermonster screwed with this post 12-09-2012 at 09:35 AM
therivermonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 08:24 AM   #249
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 50,277


Jim
JimVonBaden is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 08:45 AM   #250
kirkster70
moto junkie
 
kirkster70's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Virginia
Oddometer: 1,905
You are doing some fine work. Thanks for the inspiration.
kirkster70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 12:31 PM   #251
therivermonster OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
therivermonster's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Oddometer: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkster70 View Post
You are doing some fine work. Thanks for the inspiration.
Thanks, kirkster! If you've never given composites a try, don't wait. It's a lot of fun, and I suppose that one could make very useful things.
__________________
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

My Virgin ADV Trip
, Rocks Flyin', Me Cryin', and God Looking On - A WABDR Adventure, Fun With Carbon Fiber
therivermonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 03:11 AM   #252
xradipo
Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Oddometer: 27
Carbon klevar fuel tank

Any of you have try to make a carbon-klevar fuel tank?
I would like to made a small side fuel tank for my bike, 2/3 liters.
I'm a little bit scared on the attachement point tank/rear frame.
How this attachement point have to be done on the tank?
Have got any tested/trusted solution?
Thanks
X
xradipo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 06:52 AM   #253
therivermonster OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
therivermonster's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Oddometer: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by xradipo View Post
Any of you have try to make a carbon-klevar fuel tank?
I would like to made a small side fuel tank for my bike, 2/3 liters.
I'm a little bit scared on the attachement point tank/rear frame.
How this attachement point have to be done on the tank?
Have got any tested/trusted solution?
Thanks
X
Hi xradipo!

Creating attachment points and actually attaching the tank to the bike probably wouldn't be too hard. The biggest challenge that you might face with this kind of project would be protecting the composite from the fuel. There are so many additives in fuel today, primarily ethanol which tends to eat at a lot of materials including poly and epoxy composites. There are coatings that you can put in a tank, but from what I understand, these coating only last for so long. One option would be to build the tank around a flexible fuel bladder that is made to withstand fuel.

Let me know if you have any further questions. I'm sure that Google would bring up a lot of results for you today as well.

Have a great weekend!
__________________
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

My Virgin ADV Trip
, Rocks Flyin', Me Cryin', and God Looking On - A WABDR Adventure, Fun With Carbon Fiber
therivermonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 07:44 AM   #254
xradipo
Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Oddometer: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by therivermonster View Post
Hi xradipo!

Creating attachment points and actually attaching the tank to the bike probably wouldn't be too hard. The biggest challenge that you might face with this kind of project would be protecting the composite from the fuel. There are so many additives in fuel today, primarily ethanol which tends to eat at a lot of materials including poly and epoxy composites. There are coatings that you can put in a tank, but from what I understand, these coating only last for so long. One option would be to build the tank around a flexible fuel bladder that is made to withstand fuel.

Let me know if you have any further questions. I'm sure that Google would bring up a lot of results for you today as well.

Have a great weekend!
Hi Therivermonster,
there is a specific product for this.
This product is a particular "gum" for protecting the composite from the fuel.
A friend of mine has already used it for a cafe race tank and it works fine, durable and liable.
The product is
http://www.tankerite.com/catalogo-on...&category_id=6
(Sorry the site is available only in Italian)

I have seen side aluminium tank but never a side fiber tank.
The tanks made by my friend are all front tank, and the fitment is easy he normally glue,
with epoxy+hardner, some aluminium bracket to the tank but I’m not sure this would work for a side hanging tank!

Any suggestion or experience on how to made the attaching point would be appreciate.


Thanks X

Have a good week end you too.
xradipo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 08:07 AM   #255
therivermonster OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
therivermonster's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Oddometer: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by xradipo View Post
Hi Therivermonster,
there is a specific product for this.
This product is a particular "gum" for protecting the composite from the fuel.
A friend of mine has already used it for a cafe race tank and it works fine, durable and liable.
The product is
http://www.tankerite.com/catalogo-on...&category_id=6
(Sorry the site is available only in Italian)

I have seen side aluminium tank but never a side fiber tank.
The tanks made by my friend are all front tank, and the fitment is easy he normally glue,
with epoxy+hardner, some aluminium bracket to the tank but I’m not sure this would work for a side hanging tank!

Any suggestion or experience on how to made the attaching point would be appreciate.


Thanks X

Have a good week end you too.
Thank you for the link to that tank coating product. I'll have to look into that.

Whenever you mate aluminum with carbon fiber you create another problem known as galvanic corrosion. What happens is that the carbon acts like a cathode, and the metal acts like an anode causing the aluminum to corrode away. You can try to get by this by isolating the carbon from the metal hardware with glass fibers, or Kevlar.

You probably wouldn't have to worry too much about this because you can use carbon to make most kinds of bracketry and fittings.
__________________
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

My Virgin ADV Trip
, Rocks Flyin', Me Cryin', and God Looking On - A WABDR Adventure, Fun With Carbon Fiber
therivermonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014