GM Shoddiness & Crappy Build & Materials Quality

[Campari]

Originally Posted by Crocodile Tears

they got the wrong BMW

euro only mid 80's m535i... i like!

[Ko]

They're all over the map...
Had Renaults that were just a POS, while a turbo charged 5 was best car ever. Had VWs that were just a money pit, then others that would not quit even after the oil pan got punctured and there wasn't much if any oil left. Had Mercs that run forever, 450k km and you wouldn't know it, others had to be sold for pats way before (more money that way).
Had a Chevy van, Rally 2500 that was best NA van I ever had, only needed few gaskets, a $5 power booster from a junk yard and some body repairs to make it run like new, if not better. Had an E350 with a 7.3 that at 100k miles needed another engine, had another one with same setup that at 180k miles took no oil, and didn't rattle one bit.
Had Hondas that lasted, had Mazdas that lasted- although there was one that had tranny and engine problems quite early.
If I were to think back, the problems I had over the years were with cars on which the maintenance history was unknown, or cars which were abused- guess the problem is owner related

In the end it's all about having a decent base to start with, and proper maintenance- not what the dealer does/recommends. I won't say luck cause in my case if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any...


Ko

[Dukeryder]

Originally Posted by Nytelyte

2005 Saturn Ion Coupe, manual trans.

I'm sorry but I don't have much sympathy for anyone who bitches about a Saturn, Cavalier, S-10 or other domestic econobox KNOWN for being a pile of shit Especially since these cars were known pieces of shit since the early 1980s!

Comparing these to Civics or Corollas just isn't fair because when you bought a new Saturn, generally you could get 0% financing and a few thousand dollars in rebates. With a new Civic you're lucky if they toss in the floormats for free. So you get what you pay for.

I hate to break it to most people that Honda and Toyotas aren't without their faults either. 2 people that I worked with had Rav4s from the era of the OP's Saturn and BOTH of them had to have the engines replaced by Toyota!

Everytime I've purchased a Toyota or Honda was more for resale value than "reliability", as in the last 20 yrs it's been a wash between the Domestics and Japanese cars in that regard (VWs, MBs, BMWs & Audis being much worse than average; and I've owned a bunch).

[Nytelyte]

Originally Posted by Dukeryder

I'm sorry but I don't have much sympathy for anyone who bitches about a Saturn, Cavalier, S-10 or other domestic econobox KNOWN for being a pile of shit Especially since these cars were known pieces of shit since the early 1980s!

Concur. Add into the equation a father that adores GM and a pre-Nytelyte influence time, coupled with the need for an inexpensive car quickly (because someone in a Cavalier rear ended her at a stop light, brakes probably went out) and a Saturn enters the equation.

Won't happen again, don't worry.

[RED CAT]

If its been mentioned but none of this is valid unless all those cars you owned were bought new. Buying someone elses old Chevy and then driving it for a couple of years just doesn't equate. Over the years I've owned about 35 cars, vans, pickups with an even half being bought new. Had many different brands. Chrysler products have been the worst. Japanese products have been the best overall. Chevys and Fords in the middle. Longest one I ever owned was 8 years and that was a new 98 Ford E250 5.4 which I sold to a good pal who is still tickled pink with it. I took good care of all my vehicles and really most were great. My wife still drives a 2003 Corolla she bought new with 90,000mi on it now and I basically only changed a couple of light bulbs besides oil changes since day 1. She won't let me get her something newer.

[G-Mac]

Use to own GM then turned to Ford. Much better bang for the buck. Now with Honda, couldn't be happier. Ridgelines rock. Everyone thinks they need a truck for that once or twice a year they haul drywall or plywood. Buy a Honda get reliability comfort and the truck you will need. I have many many times hauled more than 1000kilos in my truck trailer combo and it did it with out a blink of an eye. This is all the truck most people need. Very underrated.
Cheers

[FPGT72]

Originally Posted by G-Mac

Use to own GM then turned to Ford. Much better bang for the buck. Now with Honda, couldn't be happier. Ridgelines rock. Everyone thinks they need a truck for that once or twice a year they haul drywall or plywood. Buy a Honda get reliability comfort and the truck you will need. I have many many times hauled more than 1000kilos in my truck trailer combo and it did it with out a blink of an eye. This is all the truck most people need. Very underrated.
Cheers

Agree....99% of the people with even a 1/2 ton truck do not need it....macho statement. Then you get 1ton trucks that are lowered....but that is for the WTF thread......need has very little to do with vehicle buying.

[Carlo Muro]

Originally Posted by troidus

The mining industry needs a crush-proof people mover, somthing that can withstand being run over by a loaded Cat 797F. I'm thinking a dome shape with suspension that permits the chassis to ground under extreme load.

been burning a few have we?

[Shadow10]

Originally Posted by RED CAT

If its been mentioned but none of this is valid unless all those cars you owned were bought new. Buying someone elses old Chevy and then driving it for a couple of years just doesn't equate.

Why do you say this?

Its quite reasonable to expect a vehicle to perform as advertised regardless if you are the first, second or third owner. Scheduled maintenance aside, if the build quality is crap bits are going to fall off and things fail no matter who owns it.

[Nailhead]

Originally Posted by Carlo Muro

oh...have you checked your rear diff cover lately? they are known to rust through DAMHIK

and I don't even live in a really snowy area

Thanks man, but rust is something you really only read about here.

It's fine anyway-- it was off when I replaced an axle shaft seal last winter.

Now that I think about it, who in their right mind utilizes an axle shaft as an inner wheel bearing race?

I know, I know... GM does.

[Nailhead]

Originally Posted by RedRocket

So who is building a good quality car today, the Germans?

The Koreans from what I hear.

[Nailhead]

Originally Posted by Dukeryder

I'm sorry but I don't have much sympathy for anyone who bitches about a Saturn, Cavalier, S-10 or other domestic econobox KNOWN for being a pile of shit

Hate to disappoint, but I wasn't looking for sympathy from you or anyone else when I posted what I did about my S10. If you'll read the opening portion of my post, I indicated I'm quite satisfied with it.

Essentially, I like the truck but I'm mystified and frequently irritated by some of the bizarre engineering that went into it.

[AkBrian]

Originally Posted by Nytelyte

That pretty much sums my feelings pretty well, and I wrote mine before I read yours.



True. Everyone has lemons. I have bad days & I'm certain my code on those days isn't optimal.
However, the problems I've experienced with that car are epidemic of the line. Not one or two offs, but almost every one had the frozen starting solenoid (car disabling problem) and the door lock problem (kills battery, so car disabling problem), and on just about every single one of them the sunroof leaks (not car disabling, but damn annoying and interior ruining) and the plastic tracks deteriorate and break (not disabling, but an unsealed hole in the roof of your car is damn annoying, loud, and leaky). The crappy interior trim and fit/finish is a side issue that no other car I've ever had experienced, regardless of age or miles.

Skipping the sunroof option is a fast way to eliminate many a aging vehicle problem. Even if its just the standard dirt (or leaves and needles) in drain tube problem.

[Motornoggin]

Originally Posted by Nailhead

Now that I think about it, who in their right mind utilizes an axle shaft as an inner wheel bearing race?

I know, I know... GM does.

As does Dodge, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Jeep, or anything else with a Dana, Eaton, or corporate semi-floating axle. It's worked well for over 100 years in many iterations...

[JBADV]

Originally Posted by Motornoggin

As does Dodge, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Jeep, or anything else with a Dana, Eaton, or corporate semi-floating axle. It's worked well for over 100 years in many iterations...

When the axle is worn the aftermarket has replacement bearing/seal asy that moves the bearing to a fresh axle surface.Maybe not for all,but many vehicles.