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Old 12-22-2012, 05:23 PM   #16
DRTBYK
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Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
Hmm that's because your Montana isn't a Zumo Its more like a GPSMap series Almost. Lol


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On the zumo 66x units you can do your mixed route planning in Mac-BC and then convert the mixed route to a track. Import the track into the zumo as a custom route (not an Off-road Track).

The zumo will convert the track to route faithful to the track - just keep Recalc=off. Use to do this all the time when I had the zumo.

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Old 12-24-2012, 04:53 AM   #17
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Ah..slowly starting to understand. Tried to make a test route with auto routing first. Then switch to "Direct Routing" , mark route and extend...and it worked making direct lines between points. Switched back to autorouting an extednd and it continued the route following roads but without messing up the point to point route. Brilliant, just what I've tried
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Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
Lets say you are figureing a route here. You know this road goes through or it turns to trail but Mapsource does not depict it correctly, showing it does not go through but dead ends.

Now in certain situations like when we rode the unmapped Trans Continental RR in Utah for a good number of miles, when plotting it I switch from Mapsource to Google Earth, following the original grade & waypointing the GE image, then I switch back to Mapsource and connect the waypoints in "Direct Routing" mode under "Edit/Preferences/Routing"
The finished route is seemless.

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Old 12-24-2012, 04:58 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by DockingPilot View Post
The trick is having a good GPS like the GPSMap 276c/376/478 series units that will not recalc your custom route after upload. A soccer van Zumo will destroy a route like this.
I can't even find them on garmins web page, only zumos and montana?
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
On the zumo 66x units you can do your mixed route planning in Mac-BC and then convert the mixed route to a track. Import the track into the zumo as a custom route (not an Off-road Track).

The zumo will convert the track to route faithful to the track - just keep Recalc=off. Use to do this all the time when I had the zumo.

Cheers,
You say that you import TRACK as custom route...but can't you import my mixed route from mapsource (assume mixed route is a route, not track, just a combination of auto routed and direct routed???).

Seems like the important thing is avoiding recalculation here. If mapspurce and Zumo 66x will do the job fairly well making mixed routes I'd be happy.
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:28 AM   #19
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I can't even find them on garmins web page, only zumos and montana?

You say that you import TRACK as custom route...but can't you import my mixed route from mapsource (assume mixed route is a route, not track, just a combination of auto routed and direct routed???).

Seems like the important thing is avoiding recalculation here. If mapspurce and Zumo 66x will do the job fairly well making mixed routes I'd be happy.
Ping, Discontinued model. The Montana is good and you can find used *76 series for sale. Dyrbke can tell you more about Montana as I dont know the unit yet myself.
But basicly, yes, you can build an entire route like this. Bridging unmapped sections with mapped sections. Then the trick is to not have your GPS recalc it because it will not understand your direct routing sections and attempt to go around them messing it up.
Having a route instead of a track will give you much more info while riding like eta, distance to next turn and so on. No big deal on a small day route, but big if your on a multi day huge route you want to give all your attention to your surroundings and not the GPS. A route makes the GPS do the navigation work while you just pilot the bike.
Thats my take on it anyway
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:35 AM   #20
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OK, thanks! Thought the Montana was more a hand held hiking GPS that could be used for motorcycle but on closer inspection maybe that is the better choice.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:16 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by bemiiten View Post
This is precisely the reason that the x76 units coupled with Mapsource are still the standard when it comes to building and navigating routes. With tracks, the GPS lays down straight lines from point to point as opposed to following the road. Also with tracks, you loose the single most important piece of information, distance to next turn. Following tracks requires far to much attention. Lots of stopping and zooming in and out to see if your on the right road. If you like guesswork and u turns, use tracks. Routes on the other hand require just a quick glance down to get all the information you need. Mapsource allows you to combine established roads and unmaped areas all into one easy to follow route.
Agree with part of this. I do love my 376c

Navigating tracks is not an issue for me on my 60csx or 376c. I just glance at the screen every now and then and see what's coming up. I have no problems with zooming in/out, but then again I leave it zoomed in pretty far.

And if you really want to have fun, the 376c will navigate a track as well.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:10 PM   #22
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Agree with part of this. I do love my 376c

Navigating tracks is not an issue for me on my 60csx or 376c. I just glance at the screen every now and then and see what's coming up. I have no problems with zooming in/out, but then again I leave it zoomed in pretty far.

And if you really want to have fun, the 376c will navigate a track as well.
You're very much in the minority. I've ridden with plenty of people that constantly have to back track because they missed turns following both tracks and routes. Some of them on STREET rides even. Then of course there were the 2 guys I know that wrecked because they were staring down at their GPS tracks instead of watching where they were riding.

The only sure way not to miss turns is voice prompts from routes.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:32 PM   #23
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
You're very much in the minority. I've ridden with plenty of people that constantly have to back track because they missed turns following both tracks and routes. Some of them on STREET rides even. Then of course there were the 2 guys I know that wrecked because they were staring down at their GPS tracks instead of watching where they were riding.

The only sure way not to miss turns is voice prompts from routes.

-1.

I gave up on routes several years ago because of many problems with routing and I now use tracks for bike trips.

I was recently on a business trip with two guys who were using routing with audible directions for simple navigating around a city. The unit was giving ridiculous directions and which got even worse when the driver properly ignored them.

I guess there must some secrets to making routing work, but I have never found them.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by wbbnm View Post
-1.

I gave up on routes several years ago because of many problems with routing and I now use tracks for bike trips.

I was recently on a business trip with two guys who were using routing with audible directions for simple navigating around a city. The unit was giving ridiculous directions and which got even worse when the driver properly ignored them.

I guess there must some secrets to making routing work, but I have never found them.
you doing it wrong then.My brother and i went on a big trip in australia last year.i was not fussed with having a gps but my brother has a garmin 2xxx.He got new maps before we went and plotted the whole route.We could easily have done the trip without the gps outside of Sydney but it was invaluable in getting into(and out of) Sydney and back to the rental car place
.It may not have taken us the most direct or "best" way but it got us there,and got us back on course when we missed one turn at a busy intersection.
It would have been a much more difficult(and stressful) process without it.We had voice propmts all the way so i just had to concentrate on dealing with the traffic and driving, and the gps did the navigating.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:24 PM   #26
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Lets not confuse a custom uploaded route to a on the fly, gps generated, auto recalcing route.
Big diff.

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Old 12-27-2012, 12:58 AM   #27
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Satnavs are great for riding in big cities you don't know and autorouting helps you when you miss that turn. Same for getting you from A to B the simplest way...which is what most satnavs are designed for.

But my thread here was about using routes in unmapped areas. As it's still riding (unmapped) roads, following a track shouldn't be a problem, simply check GPS at every intersectionand glane down every now and then checking that on track.

But used to routes and seems possible both generating mixed routes in mapsource and download to GPS...just have to buy a Montana :) So will give this a try.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:38 AM   #28
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You're very much in the minority. I've ridden with plenty of people that constantly have to back track because they missed turns following both tracks and routes. Some of them on STREET rides even. Then of course there were the 2 guys I know that wrecked because they were staring down at their GPS tracks instead of watching where they were riding.

The only sure way not to miss turns is voice prompts from routes.
Very much disagree.

Almost Every major event I have ridden has distributed track information because it doesn't change, unlike routes, which change when recalc'd, and are worthless if someone gives you one that was developed with a different data set.

There was one event I rode where the organizers created a custom mapset for Garmin and then loaded that. They had played with the road specs to convert their track to a road, and then load that. While it was good because it worked, it sucked because they wiped out your mapset on units that only had a limited basemap.

And if you are on a street ride, you shouldn't have a problem with missing roads and having to connect sections, which is what the OP asked about.

As for voice prompts, you are assuming the use of a unit with audio output capability, and the rider using a headset, or speakers.

But it all comes down to the "different strokes for different folks". I'll stick with what I have for now.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:47 AM   #29
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Ah, Dave brings up point and another difference.
Are you going on a single or multi day trip, be it adventure or road, you, a few friends with GPS units like yours ?
A route you built is the way to go for reasons given above. Its more mental work involved pre trip, but way less once executed.

Going to or hosting a DS event like Dave mentions and the masses are involved ?
A track is your only option.

But again, we are talking about 2 different animals here. Ill say that most guys use tracks, its just easier to share the intended way or route, between guys. Just about any good GPS will let you follow a track-line and it doesn't matter what version map-set it has on it. Meaning, lets say you have a 2009 map-set and your friend has a 2012 map-set. If you build a route, like I advocate, on your 2009 map-set in Mapsource for example, and email your friend that route, his GPS with the 2012 map-set will puke it out. Error: "MAPS DO NOT MATCH" "WANT TO RECALCULATE" ?
Of course if he pushes yes, the unit will destroy the route. Ill explain what is needed to remedy this later.
You don't have to worry about any of this with a shared track. The GPS will just ingest it. However, thats all it will do. You are left to staring at the screen to make sure "your on track" .
I need reading glasses, so for me on a huge, 2,500 mile, 14 day trip, this just takes my attention away from the landscape a little too much. And if I have a plane ticket waiting on me at the end of the trip, say like this years trip, in Reno, I can casually, glance at the ETA through out the trip to get a idea of how we are progressing. I also get "Distance to next turn". Huge. Example and there are many of them, TAT, Oklahoma, we make a turn onto this slick dirt road through the prairie grass, "Distance to next turn" 45 miles". Nice, I can pilot the bike taking in the landscape and not have to worry about blowing by a turn as I was gawking at the stark surroundings. And, thats not to say, the road I'm on wont twist or turn and fork, it could, but you know just stay on that road and your good as the GPS counts down to the next turn.
But a route does require more pre-trip work.
So, how do you share a route between GPS's that have different map-set versions ? This is where the work comes in. Like I said earlier, you cant just grab someones track-line and run it. You need to create your route. So you email your friend your route made on a 2009 map-set in Map-source but he runs 2012. He opens it in Mapsource which it will do no problem. He then has to re-create the route, simply going over the top of your route, in essence, copying it. And there is more then 1 way to do this. But once he is done, you both have the same route built on your own map-set versions.
Way easier, and me and my friends now do this, if you all have Garmins Lifetime Updates. Then your all on the same, latest, maps and sharing a route is as simple as sharing a track.

Clear as mud I'm sure
All I can say is we have been on many off road, complicated routes over the years, and we never loose time going off course or lost anyone in the group.

Its a personal choice, both work, it just comes down to what you are doing ride wise, and willing to do and want from your GPS. What I typed is just an opinion. Not right or wrong.

But to answer the OP's question, YES, you can make a route with mixed, mapped and unmapped sections.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:52 AM   #30
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The real issue is what is your gps capable of handling and that will determine which method is best.

With a group ride you then need to be sure everyone's unit will handle the same stuff.

The only way I can trust my 60csx with routes mixed between auto and direct is converting them to direct with wingdb.

Using tracks, the proper zoom level is key to not missing turns.

getting some glasses with progressive lenses helps with the 60 screen....
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