Help me buy my first bike - Page 4

JerryH · 12-26-2012, 06:56 PM

"A Goldwing has the top leg horizontal with a 90 degree bend to the pegs. (Mid-Controls a.k.a. feet forward) No dual sport bike I have ever seen has had "Mid-controls. They are ALL standard! I have been on this forum for a long time and you are the most confused and contradictory inmate I have ever come across"

What do you mean mid controls = feet forward" Mid controls, with a 90 degree knee bend and a straight upright riding position, with bars you can reach with a decent bend in your elbowsIS a standard. Feet forward is where the controls are several inches forward of that, as in a cruiser. You still sit upright, but your legs are straighter. Some people don't like this position, because having your feet so far forward tends to push your upper body backward, the "cruiser slouch" The cure for this on a cruiser with forward mount pegs is a riders backrest to support your upper body. A "sport bike" riding position has low bars, that you have to lean forward to reach, which puts anywhere from a little to a whole lot (depending on the bike) of your upper body weight on the bars (your arms and shoulders, like doing pushups) since you are bent over, if you keep your neck straight, you will be looking at the instruments or the top of the tank. You have to bend you neck up to see where you are going. Like walking around looking up all the time. This puts a lot of strain on your arms, shoulders, and neck. The pegs are also rearset, about where the passenger pegs would be on a standard bike, maybe a little higher. This bends your knees as far as they will go, and points your toes almost straight down, rather than straight ahead, as on a standard bike.

Go find yourself an early '80s Japanese "standard" bike, like a KZ650 (not a cruiser) and see what the riding position is like. It won't be anything like an EX500, it will be almost the same as a Goldwing. The Goldwing is specifically designed for touring, and has what is the most comfortable riding position for most people including me. I had a 1200 Goldwing, now a 1500, the riding position is almost exactly the same. Standard. Bikes like the ST1300, FJR1300, and Concours 1400 are much more sport oriented, with low bars and rearset pegs. Not as much as a GSXR, but way more than a standard. I've been riding since 1968, I think I know what a standard is.

JustKip · 12-26-2012, 07:26 PM

@ JerryH,
Guess who didn't look at the ergo link DAKEZ provided ( http://cycle-ergo.com/ )?
Goldwing ergos are closer to Victory and Harley touring models, and Yamaha cruiser style baggers, than Bonneville or TU250, which are being called "Standard". Guess what else has those "standard" ergos? My R12GS and Multistrada 1200...and FJR.

DAKEZ · 12-26-2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryH

What do you mean mid controls = feet forward" Mid controls, with a 90 degree knee bend and a straight upright riding position, with bars you can reach with a decent bend in your elbowsIS a standard..

No. It is like sitting in a chair with your feet in FRONT of you. Thus the term feet forward.
All mid controls, floor boards and forward controls are FEET FORWARD.

A standard riding position is one where your feet are beneath you (like sitting on a bar stool) Bikes like the TU250 and Bonneville you mentioned. Also like the Dual Sports that you in your misguided and ignorant way called "mid controls".

Follow the link I posted and look up the bikes for yourself. Look at the leg possision. http://cycle-ergo.com/

Feet Under:

Bar stool/standard. Dirtbikes, Dual Sports, Adventure bikes, Bonneville, UJM's ...

Feet Forward:

Chair/Mids Gold Wing, FXDB, FXDC,

Relaxed/footboard FLD, FLSTC, V-star, Vulcan Classic

Slouch on couch/forward, Raider S, FXDWG, FXDF '09'+, Vucan Custom...

You are confusing "forward controls" with "feet forward" Feet forward simply means that your feet are in front of you (not under you) and it comes in various degrees.

Super Sport bikes have "Rear Sets"

Mr.Moose · 12-26-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat0020

Stuck on Euro brand names?

For under $3k, you could probly find a used SV650 that would have all if not most of the power you need and serve you well beyond your riding skills for years to come.

Mechanically, SV650s are quite reliable and simple to maintain. OEM parts are pretty cheap, aftermarket parts are plenty available if you desire to upgrade later.

If you live in a big city and want to get a bike on the cheap without worry of vandals, accidental tip-over's to turn costly, SV650 can be a good choice.

Couldn't agree more. The sv650 is a great bike and you serve the purpose you listed here very well.

Tim_Tom · 12-27-2012, 07:00 AM

The Bonneville would be a really good first 'real' bike. Especially if YOU are the most comfortable on it, and like the looks the most. You've said often you like bikes that look 'like motorcycles' ie. retro standards. The bonnie is really easy to ride, and would be just as at home on the streets of NYC or the curvy roads at Bear Mountain. I think you have the right idea to go for the base model, and then bring it in the thruxton direction. Lower bars, mirrors, and a tach is all you need really. Although a slick 2-1 pipe would really set off the bike.

I say go for the Bonnie, I think it's the bike that you 'want' the most, and your hoping some ones agrees with you.

PS look into frame sliders or case savers, or some sort of tip over damage protection. The NYC streets are a rough place for a bike.

gatorgrizz27 · 12-29-2012, 09:50 PM

I think the newer Bonneville would be a great choice also. A big step up from a 250 but not so much that you are likely to get into trouble. You might end up enjoying it so much that you keep it as a second bike for cruising around even if you choose a much sportier, more powerful bike in a couple years.

There are also some bikes that are no longer produced that you might want to look into if you aren't set on a new bike.

The older Ducati Monsters, specifically the 800 and 900, are awesome bikes, and maintenance isn't nearly as bad as the rumors would have you believe. The biggest mark against them is passenger comfort. I've carried passengers around town or for a 30 minute backroads ride with no complaints, but if you intend on much longer than that it isn't ideal.

There is also the GT1000, which isn't as common, but gorgeous and more sporty than the Bonneville as well

Finally, don't take this the wrong way, but be realistic about how much of a priority what your girlfriend wants is to you. Obviously you want her to enjoy riding with you, but consider if things don't work out and you end up with a bike you purchased because she wanted it, rather than what you wanted.

Bobby Ginger · 12-31-2012, 05:58 PM

The GT is a great bike, I love mine. Not as long distance minded as some of the other bikes you mettioned, but I cant get from stoplight to stoplight without compliment.

Blakebird · 12-31-2012, 06:31 PM

a new rider is going to have the occasional 'oops' and set the bike down on it's side....either standing still or at low speed.

I wouldn't take any of these new bike suggestions for your next bike, especially if you're leaning towards a bike big enough to cover some ground on with your riding buddies.

Buy something cheap that has already taken a resale hit, put a year's worth of miles on it, see where it falls short in your expectations....and put that info into the "what your first new bike should be" folder.

The SV650 was a very good idea, and you could save money towards the next new one by looking at GS500's, EX500's, etc.

Maybe your first new bike could be a V7 or an NC700X or something like that - but wouldn't you hate to spend all that money and find it wasn't what you really needed/wanted - then YOU get to take the depreciation hit?

kirb · 01-01-2013, 07:59 AM

Stop only hearing your euro friends opinions an consider the below...cheap, easy to maintain, naked, parts are ccheap....and the most important part...people don't want to steal it like all the others. Sounds like you are keeping it outside. Lots of the other bikes are theft magnets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat0020

Stuck on Euro brand names?

For under $3k, you could probly find a used SV650 that would have all if not most of the power you need and serve you well beyond your riding skills for years to come.

Mechanically, SV650s are quite reliable and simple to maintain. OEM parts are pretty cheap, aftermarket parts are plenty available if you desire to upgrade later.

If you live in a big city and want to get a bike on the cheap without worry of vandals, accidental tip-over's to turn costly, SV650 can be a good choice.

12-26-2012, 06:56 PM	#46
JerryH Vintage Rider Joined: Jul 2009 Location: Chandler, AZ Oddometer: 1,653	"A Goldwing has the top leg horizontal with a 90 degree bend to the pegs. (Mid-Controls a.k.a. feet forward) No dual sport bike I have ever seen has had "Mid-controls. They are ALL standard! I have been on this forum for a long time and you are the most confused and contradictory inmate I have ever come across" What do you mean mid controls = feet forward" Mid controls, with a 90 degree knee bend and a straight upright riding position, with bars you can reach with a decent bend in your elbowsIS a standard. Feet forward is where the controls are several inches forward of that, as in a cruiser. You still sit upright, but your legs are straighter. Some people don't like this position, because having your feet so far forward tends to push your upper body backward, the "cruiser slouch" The cure for this on a cruiser with forward mount pegs is a riders backrest to support your upper body. A "sport bike" riding position has low bars, that you have to lean forward to reach, which puts anywhere from a little to a whole lot (depending on the bike) of your upper body weight on the bars (your arms and shoulders, like doing pushups) since you are bent over, if you keep your neck straight, you will be looking at the instruments or the top of the tank. You have to bend you neck up to see where you are going. Like walking around looking up all the time. This puts a lot of strain on your arms, shoulders, and neck. The pegs are also rearset, about where the passenger pegs would be on a standard bike, maybe a little higher. This bends your knees as far as they will go, and points your toes almost straight down, rather than straight ahead, as on a standard bike. Go find yourself an early '80s Japanese "standard" bike, like a KZ650 (not a cruiser) and see what the riding position is like. It won't be anything like an EX500, it will be almost the same as a Goldwing. The Goldwing is specifically designed for touring, and has what is the most comfortable riding position for most people including me. I had a 1200 Goldwing, now a 1500, the riding position is almost exactly the same. Standard. Bikes like the ST1300, FJR1300, and Concours 1400 are much more sport oriented, with low bars and rearset pegs. Not as much as a GSXR, but way more than a standard. I've been riding since 1968, I think I know what a standard is. __________________ "I refuse to give up the thrill of living for the relative safety of existing" Nick Ienatsch "Life is not a race. Don't treat it as such. If you don't believe me, just have a look at the finish line"

12-31-2012, 05:58 PM	#52
Bobby Ginger Unicorn Wrangler Joined: Nov 2012 Location: Where the water meets the sand Oddometer: 209	Gt 1000 The GT is a great bike, I love mine. Not as long distance minded as some of the other bikes you mettioned, but I cant get from stoplight to stoplight without compliment. __________________ Forget it, drive on. 2009 GSA 2008 Husky TE450 2007 Ducati GT1000 Sold 2005 DRZ 400 Sold IBA 50407

12-31-2012, 06:31 PM	#53
Blakebird r-u-n-n-o-f-t Joined: Feb 2004 Location: Parker, CO Oddometer: 12,174	a new rider is going to have the occasional 'oops' and set the bike down on it's side....either standing still or at low speed. I wouldn't take any of these new bike suggestions for your next bike, especially if you're leaning towards a bike big enough to cover some ground on with your riding buddies. Buy something cheap that has already taken a resale hit, put a year's worth of miles on it, see where it falls short in your expectations....and put that info into the "what your first new bike should be" folder. The SV650 was a very good idea, and you could save money towards the next new one by looking at GS500's, EX500's, etc. Maybe your first new bike could be a V7 or an NC700X or something like that - but wouldn't you hate to spend all that money and find it wasn't what you really needed/wanted - then YOU get to take the depreciation hit? __________________ IBA #11735 . 1968-present

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12-26-2012, 07:26 PM	#47
JustKip Beastly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Fresno, CA Oddometer: 2,930	@ JerryH, Guess who didn't look at the ergo link DAKEZ provided ( http://cycle-ergo.com/ )? Goldwing ergos are closer to Victory and Harley touring models, and Yamaha cruiser style baggers, than Bonneville or TU250, which are being called "Standard". Guess what else has those "standard" ergos? My R12GS and Multistrada 1200...and FJR.

12-27-2012, 07:00 AM	#50
Tim_Tom Riding an' Wrenching Joined: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Oddometer: 109	The Bonneville would be a really good first 'real' bike. Especially if YOU are the most comfortable on it, and like the looks the most. You've said often you like bikes that look 'like motorcycles' ie. retro standards. The bonnie is really easy to ride, and would be just as at home on the streets of NYC or the curvy roads at Bear Mountain. I think you have the right idea to go for the base model, and then bring it in the thruxton direction. Lower bars, mirrors, and a tach is all you need really. Although a slick 2-1 pipe would really set off the bike. I say go for the Bonnie, I think it's the bike that you 'want' the most, and your hoping some ones agrees with you. PS look into frame sliders or case savers, or some sort of tip over damage protection. The NYC streets are a rough place for a bike.

12-29-2012, 09:50 PM	#51
gatorgrizz27 Adventurer Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Austin, TX Oddometer: 84	I think the newer Bonneville would be a great choice also. A big step up from a 250 but not so much that you are likely to get into trouble. You might end up enjoying it so much that you keep it as a second bike for cruising around even if you choose a much sportier, more powerful bike in a couple years. There are also some bikes that are no longer produced that you might want to look into if you aren't set on a new bike. The older Ducati Monsters, specifically the 800 and 900, are awesome bikes, and maintenance isn't nearly as bad as the rumors would have you believe. The biggest mark against them is passenger comfort. I've carried passengers around town or for a 30 minute backroads ride with no complaints, but if you intend on much longer than that it isn't ideal. There is also the GT1000, which isn't as common, but gorgeous and more sporty than the Bonneville as well Finally, don't take this the wrong way, but be realistic about how much of a priority what your girlfriend wants is to you. Obviously you want her to enjoy riding with you, but consider if things don't work out and you end up with a bike you purchased because she wanted it, rather than what you wanted.