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Old 12-27-2012, 04:18 PM   #72196
trailrider383
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This post makes me appreciate my simple DR all the more. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=33

Every time a new thumper comes out I get excited and think it might be something to replace the DR. Then I read posts like this. All that just to change the oil.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:23 PM   #72197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
You can't do it that way with most modern motorcycle engines because the wrist pin is already as high in the piston as is practical. There just enough room between the wrist pin and the cylinder head to fit rings with no extra distance available to make a shorter compression height.

.

Yes, when we stroke the pin ends up being into the oil rings. No biggie though, you run a shorter pin with a support rail. Like so:




Two diffrent ways of getting the same tamato juice! We often go this route to keep rod length longer for geometry and because custom rods are more expensive then the pistons. Of course, you only need one rod...we need 8
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:30 PM   #72198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailrider383 View Post
This post makes me appreciate my simple DR all the more. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=33

Every time a new thumper comes out I get excited and think it might be something to replace the DR. Then I read posts like this. All that just to change the oil.
What's the big deal, I use Rotella in my DR.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:17 PM   #72199
RichBeBe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongle View Post

Two diffrent ways of getting the same tamato juice! We often go this route to keep rod length longer for geometry and because custom rods are more expensive then the pistons. Of course, you only need one rod...we need 8
You could also run the stock length rods and use a cylinder spacer on the DR. Just another tomato juice.
We would do that on some bikes that could run stock rods on stroked cranks (two piece rods with plane bearings made it easier)Though somewhere i have a cylinder spacer for a stroked RZ350 laying around.
Not gonna work on your V-8's though
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:19 PM   #72200
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We got many rods from Spade Carillo in the mid 1960's, for small block Fords and Chevys. Never had a rod problem.
They are a thing of beauty. Needing only one is nice. But, you should buy two, just to have one to hold and look at.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:40 PM   #72201
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
What's the big deal, I use Rotella in my DR.
Say what?
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:55 PM   #72202
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Originally Posted by RichBeBe View Post
You could also run the stock length rods and use a cylinder spacer on the DR. Just another tomato juice.
We would do that on some bikes that could run stock rods on stroked cranks (two piece rods with plane bearings made it easier)Though somewhere i have a cylinder spacer for a stroked RZ350 laying around.
Not gonna work on your V-8's though
Yeah, but if you're after 10 mm more stroke there are multiple problems to overcome after spacing up the cylinder. Cam chain length, upper motor mounts, fitting carburetor and exhaust pipes, oil lines, etc. It's certainly a lot easier with a 2-stroke.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:07 AM   #72203
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So the ongoing struggle to get my Safari tank dialed in continues. When I last checked in you guys told me to fill it up and see how far I can get before it craps out. Seemed like the logical thing to do so I filled it with 33 liters (still had some in the tank when I rolled up to the gas station) and rode it for 275 miles. Then 5 miles from town in 108 degree heat, it stopped. It looked like I still had a lot of gas left so the only thing I could do was shake the bike a bit and luckily got some gas into the engine. Once at home I let everything cool down and I sprayed the carb inlet elbow with ALOT of WD40 and proceeded to empty the remaining gas into another container. When the Safari finally ran dry I found that it still had an additional 4 1/4 liters of gas remaining…and I was pissed. So I stripped the tank off grabbed a set of vice grips and cranked the elbow over to the 90 degree position. Was pretty happy that nothing snapped off and after I put the tank back on I re-routed the lines and removed the cheap inline filter I installed.



This is what it looks like now.


Does this look right to you? How bad is that bend in the hose?

Going out for a ride tomorrow and hopefully I can get another 50-60 miles before it goes dry. If not, I might be putting the Safari in the flea market and picking up a Acerbis. I really need the range and don't want to carry external containers if I don't have to.



Stay tuned and thanks again for your help.
Canoli
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:44 AM   #72204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBeBe View Post
You could also run the stock length rods and use a cylinder spacer on the DR. Just another tomato juice.
We would do that on some bikes that could run stock rods on stroked cranks (two piece rods with plane bearings made it easier)Though somewhere i have a cylinder spacer for a stroked RZ350 laying around.
Not gonna work on your V-8's though
Easy on a 2 stroke, but with OHCam, you'd need a longer camchain. That was how I immediately thought it would be accomplished, but the more I thought about it, the more confused I became.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:53 AM   #72205
RichBeBe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
Yeah, but if you're after 10 mm more stroke there are multiple problems to overcome after spacing up the cylinder. Cam chain length, upper motor mounts, fitting carburetor and exhaust pipes, oil lines, etc. It's certainly a lot easier with a 2-stroke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Easy on a 2 stroke, but with OHCam, you'd need a longer camchain. That was how I immediately thought it would be accomplished, but the more I thought about it, the more confused I became.
Agreed, I was more stating another option. The shorter rod is the way to go since you have the skirt clearance. The engine mount is the only real problem that I see on a DR.
We used to do it on a lot of 4-strokes, some you needed a new cam chain and some you didn't though rarely were the strokes 10mm. Though we did make and sell a few .250" spacers for Suzuki GS1150;s, which would be a for a pretty big stroke
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:55 AM   #72206
amk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canoli View Post
So the ongoing struggle to get my Safari tank dialed in continues. When I last checked in you guys told me to fill it up and see how far I can get before it craps out. Seemed like the logical thing to do so I filled it with 33 liters (still had some in the tank when I rolled up to the gas station) and rode it for 275 miles. Then 5 miles from town in 108 degree heat, it stopped. It looked like I still had a lot of gas left so the only thing I could do was shake the bike a bit and luckily got some gas into the engine. Once at home I let everything cool down and I sprayed the carb inlet elbow with ALOT of WD40 and proceeded to empty the remaining gas into another container. When the Safari finally ran dry I found that it still had an additional 4 1/4 liters of gas remaining…and I was pissed. So I stripped the tank off grabbed a set of vice grips and cranked the elbow over to the 90 degree position. Was pretty happy that nothing snapped off and after I put the tank back on I re-routed the lines and removed the cheap inline filter I installed.



This is what it looks like now.


Does this look right to you? How bad is that bend in the hose?

Going out for a ride tomorrow and hopefully I can get another 50-60 miles before it goes dry. If not, I might be putting the Safari in the flea market and picking up a Acerbis. I really need the range and don't want to carry external containers if I don't have to.



Stay tuned and thanks again for your help.
Canoli
I cannot pinpoint you to the exact cause of the problem, but the theory of problem solving is simple enough. DR does not have a gas pump, i.e. gas flows free to the carb by its weight and atmospheric pressure.
So the first one is to make sure the carb's inlet is below the petcock. The last usually has a pipe of 5 cm. height inside the tank, so everything under the the pipe is stayed there forever and cannot be used.
Second, make sure the gas inside is under the atmospheric pressure, the breather is not blocked etc. Just take the gas cap off and depress start button again.
Third, remove all barriers between tank and carb's inlet, i.e. filters, here I am not sure, but there probably is a small oem one right in the tank petcock or in the carb. Take the petcock out, open it, disconnect the hose from inlet and blow into petcock, should be no resistance to the air flow.
It is one of three reasons, which one is yours? It actually may be all 3 of them simultaneously.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #72207
Kommando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canoli View Post
So the ongoing struggle to get my Safari tank dialed in continues. When I last checked in you guys told me to fill it up and see how far I can get before it craps out. Seemed like the logical thing to do so I filled it with 33 liters (still had some in the tank when I rolled up to the gas station) and rode it for 275 miles. Then 5 miles from town in 108 degree heat, it stopped. It looked like I still had a lot of gas left so the only thing I could do was shake the bike a bit and luckily got some gas into the engine. Once at home I let everything cool down and I sprayed the carb inlet elbow with ALOT of WD40 and proceeded to empty the remaining gas into another container. When the Safari finally ran dry I found that it still had an additional 4 1/4 liters of gas remaining…and I was pissed. So I stripped the tank off grabbed a set of vice grips and cranked the elbow over to the 90 degree position. Was pretty happy that nothing snapped off and after I put the tank back on I re-routed the lines and removed the cheap inline filter I installed.
This is what it looks like now. Does this look right to you? How bad is that bend in the hose?
Not quite right. The DR and other carbed bikes are primarily fed by gravity. There's a bit of suction/siphon going on too, but the primary method of getting gas into the carb from the tank is by gravity feed. As long as there is no kink or blockage in the line, you basically just want the fuel to NOT have to flow uphill to get into the carb. Suction will overcome a little bit, but it can also allow air-bubbles to get into the line and affect fuel flow. The flow from my petcock to my carb is all either down or sideways. There is no uphill flow. As long as my tank is venting ok, I have no flow issues. I can run my tank pretty dry. Route your fuel lines so that there is NO uphill flow. If you can't do that, you may want to install a fuelpump.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #72208
TRAVELGUY
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I had a temporary problem with emptying my safari also. Was getting a vapor lock at the aftermarket filter I had installed. Changed to a different filter and all went well. When the vapor lock happened I could just blow into the tank vent and clear the vapor lock then tank would empty. When I disconnect my fuel lines from the carb to drain my safari the tank totally empties.

Hope this info helps.

TravelGuy

Quote:
Originally Posted by amk View Post
I cannot pinpoint you to the exact cause of the problem, but the theory of problem solving is simple enough. DR does not have a gas pump, i.e. gas flows free to the carb by its weight and atmospheric pressure.
So the first one is to make sure the carb's inlet is below the petcock. The last usually has a pipe of 5 cm. height inside the tank, so everything under the the pipe is stayed there forever and cannot be used.
Second, make sure the gas inside is under the atmospheric pressure, the breather is not blocked etc. Just take the gas cap off and depress start button again.
Third, remove all barriers between tank and carb's inlet, i.e. filters, here I am not sure, but there probably is a small oem one right in the tank petcock or in the carb. Take the petcock out, open it, disconnect the hose from inlet and blow into petcock, should be no resistance to the air flow.
It is one of three reasons, which one is yours? It actually may be all 3 of them simultaneously.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:56 AM   #72209
Mambo Dave
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Do Acerbis tanks have this much of a problem emptying fuel?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:02 PM   #72210
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canoli View Post
This is what it looks like now.


Does this look right to you? How bad is that bend in the hose?

Going out for a ride tomorrow and hopefully I can get another 50-60 miles before it goes dry. If not, I might be putting the Safari in the flea market and picking up a Acerbis. I really need the range and don't want to carry external containers if I don't have to.
Canoli
Looks like you have a "L" right angle fitting there, and then your fuel hose has to go UP HILL to the Carb. As long as you have a bit of fuel pressure (head) in your tank, it's likely you can use most ... but maybe not all of remaining fuel in your Safari.

QUESTION: Does the Safari not have a reserve? If not, perhaps you could fit a different Petcock ... one with a reserve intake that is LOWER than the current one in the Safari. This should give extra range.

Question 2 : Does the Safari have TWO petcocks? (right and left side)

I went through similar problems with my IMS tank. I also had to remove an inline aftermarket filter and had to rotate metal Carb intake pipe. All this helped, along with cleaning my dirty Petcock filter. But on your NEW tank should not be an issue ... yet.

I've retained the stock Carb inlet filter in the metal tube ... but I carry TWO
spares when on the road. One load of bad gas will CLOG this tiny filter ... so keep an eye on it. Usually it can be easily cleaned. Sometimes not, hence carrying a spare.

Now ... with my IMS tank ... I can go to about 220 miles before reserve. And what was once just 10 to 15 miles on reserve is now up to 32 miles.
Cleaning the petcock made the BIGGEST improvement. So now up to just over 250 miles until DRY. (although still about a 1.5 liters left unused) Not perfect but better. 220 miles is fine for me and what I do. PLAN AHEAD!

Good luck!
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