HD200 vs SC250 vs BV350 vs 300GTS

[Murgatroid]

The People 300 leaves me cold. It's priced the same as the BV350. I'd rather have the BV. To me, the Taiwanese scooters should significantly undercut the Italians and Japanese.

Being an engineer, I think a big part of the appeal of the HD200 and BV350 is the technology. The engine and clutch of the BV is interesting to me. I find the ceramic coated cylinders of the HD fascinating. That each engine reliably produces ~100hp/liter is what I expect from a modern engine. Many of Kymcos designs are fairly dated although the People 300 isn't one of them. It just seems bigger and clunkier in comparison to the BV, even though it's lighter.. I'll have to look at one in person.

Even David Harrington almost admitted that the BV350 is superior in just about every way to his 300GT, but picked his bike due to his faith in Kymco's reliability compared to Piaggio.

Originally Posted by gumshoe4

As the new owner of an NOS 2009 BV500 had a few "teething" problems in the first 700 miles, I have developed a bit of mistrust regarding Piaggio's parts pipeline distribution system. I love the bike and expect it to be very reliable...and I extrapolate that to the BV350 and the 300 Super, both of which I've looked at...both are very nice.

Have you looked at the Kymco People GT 300i? Not a lot of storage space, but has received very good reviews...I think Cortez did a really good writeup on it. I'd be looking at one if we had a Kymco dealer around here...

[klaviator]

Originally Posted by Murgatroid

The People 300 leaves me cold. It's priced the same as the BV350. I'd rather have the BV. To me, the Taiwanese scooters should significantly undercut the Italians and Japanese.

Being an engineer, I think a big part of the appeal of the HD200 and BV350 is the technology. The engine and clutch of the BV is interesting to me. I find the ceramic coated cylinders of the HD fascinating. That each engine reliably produces ~100hp/liter is what I expect from a modern engine. Many of Kymcos designs are fairly dated although the People 300 isn't one of them. It just seems bigger and clunkier in comparison to the BV, even though it's lighter.. I'll have to look at one in person.

Even David Harrington almost admitted that the BV350 is superior in just about every way to his 300GT, but picked his bike due to his faith in Kymco's reliability compared to Piaggio.

Although the price tag on the Kymco 300GT may be similar to the BV350, in reality you can probably get it for significantly less. The local Kymco dealer is selling it for $4899 + tax. I would expect to pay close to the sticker plus add on dealer fees for the BV350. However, get what you really want instead of pinching a few dollars. If it was me, I'd get the Kymco over the BV350. For around town and occasional long trips, I'd go with the HD200 or SC250.

I also have a Kymco Super 8 150. It is much lighter and more nimble than my SC250 and turns short trips around town into an exciting ride. I have owned many motorcycles and have been riding for over 30 years. For short trips around town, you just can't beat a small, nimble, lightweight scooter.

The Sport city on the other hand is probably the lightest 250 out there and is quite capable of touring and even running all day at highway speeds. Why get a heavier and more expensive scooter when you already have a larger motorcycle?

I haven't ridden a Vespa but I would imagine that the small wheels make it more nimble than a similar sized big wheel scooter. Unless you are riding in an area with a lot of potholes, I don't see a problem with the smaller wheels.

[hexnut]

Sloans in murfreesboro Tn sells the Kymco 300 GT for $4383.

[Phipsd]

Originally Posted by Dabears

Your comment confuses me. Alliance Powersports is the US distributor for SYM, and provides the new ones currently in inventory at US SYM dealers after the debacle that was the Carter Brothers and their curious problems with suspicious warehouse fires.

I read the SYM forum pretty frequently as well as Alliance's Facebook page- they seem to be getting new inventory all the time. They got a very cool new flat white 2013 HD200 Evo a day or two ago. My dealer told me they try very hard to ensure part orders get fulfilled. Are you unaware that Alliance is the distributor, or are you saying they are not able to fulfill their purpose and support current dealers?

Lastly, it would appear from the SYM website that the HD200 engine is the same as used in the 2013 RV200 as well. I've not seen one, but HP specs are the same. http://alliancepowersports.com/models/index.html

My local dealer here in British Columbia has been using Alliance for SYM parts because of the good prompt service. They recomended that I do the same for my Citycom because the Canadian distributer has been so useless and Alliance has been first class.

[MOPED MEDIC]

Originally Posted by Dabears

Your comment confuses me. Alliance Powersports is the US distributor for SYM, and provides the new ones currently in inventory at US SYM dealers after the debacle that was the Carter Brothers and their curious problems with suspicious warehouse fires.

I read the SYM forum pretty frequently as well as Alliance's Facebook page- they seem to be getting new inventory all the time. They got a very cool new flat white 2013 HD200 Evo a day or two ago. My dealer told me they try very hard to ensure part orders get fulfilled. Are you unaware that Alliance is the distributor, or are you saying they are not able to fulfill their purpose and support current dealers?

Lastly, it would appear from the SYM website that the HD200 engine is the same as used in the 2013 RV200 as well. I've not seen one, but HP specs are the same. http://alliancepowersports.com/models/index.html

In the United States, Kymco distributes Kymcos, Honda distributes Hondas, Yamaha distributes Yamaha, etc. SYM does not distribute in this country, and if you look at most of the other brands that operate(d) that way, Hyosung, TGB, Adly, SYM etc, it usually doesn't work out for the owner in the long run. PGO, via Genuine, is probably the glaring exception. Manufacturers can usually weather market fluctuations, and most distributors can't or don't want to. Nor do they tend to stock parts for models they don't currently sell. Being able to buy a belt and rollers online and oil at the auto parts store for a model that is currently in production is not the same as being able to buy a water pump, crankshaft, CDI or head assembly five years down the road.

[Dabears]

Originally Posted by MOPED MEDIC

In the United States, Kymco distributes Kymcos, Honda distributes Hondas, Yamaha distributes Yamaha, etc. SYM does not distribute in this country, and if you look at most of the other brands that operate(d) that way, Hyosung, TGB, Adly, SYM etc, it usually doesn't work out for the owner in the long run. PGO, via Genuine, is probably the glaring exception. Manufacturers can usually weather market fluctuations, and most distributors can't or don't want to. Nor do they tend to stock parts for models they don't currently sell. Being able to buy a belt and rollers online and oil at the auto parts store for a model that is currently in production is not the same as being able to buy a water pump, crankshaft, CDI or head assembly five years down the road.

Ah, ok- I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying. I guess my only thought on this is that being the manufacturer doesn't necessarily guarantee continuity either- look at Piaggio abandoning the US back in the 80s. Your point though is well taken. And in fact one of the reasons I held off on SYM was to see if they would establish a wider dealer network than what they've got to help ensure longer term success.

Kymco certainly appears to be going into a major dealer expansion. I've just not seen it make it's appearance in my neck of the woods....

[HBrew]

Didn't Suzuki USA just mostly shut down? No level of business is immune from a recession.

So far I am super happy with my local SYM dealer and by default Alliance. I currently own a HD 200 and will not hesitate to buy another SYM product. My HD 200 has performed flawlessly as my commuter for the last 4 seasons.

[hexnut]

Originally Posted by HBrew

Didn't Suzuki USA just mostly shut down? No level of business is immune from a recession.

So far I am super happy with my local SYM dealer and by default Alliance. I currently own a HD 200 and will not hesitate to buy another SYM product. My HD 200 has performed flawlessly as my commuter for the last 4 seasons.

That was Suzuki automobiles. They will now focus on motorcycles, ATVs, and boats part of their business, Their motorcycle division is alive and well.

http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/N...595637fd3.aspx

[t.s.graham]

Greetings,
I'm not a high miler compared to many in this community, but I did put 10K on an '07 250 GTS and now have just shy of 5K on my '12 300 GTS and all I've done is change oil, one CVT belt on the '07 and a couple back tires. There's a huge difference, in my mind, between the 250 & 300 in the gitty-up department. If I crank the 300 from a standing still position the front end gets light real quickly. I don't go there often but it is a bit intoxicating...for a scooter experience. I find the 300 much smoother too at speed than the 250. I haven't ridden any of your other choices but I don't think you'd be disappointed with either model Vespa.

My riding is primarily on the secondary blacktops but it's nice being able to hit a freeway if time ran away with me and I'm heading home.

tsg

[HBrew]

Originally Posted by hexnut

That was Suzuki automobiles. They will now focus on motorcycles, ATVs, and boats part of their business, Their motorcycle division is alive and well.

http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/N...595637fd3.aspx

The point is was it corporate Suzuki? if so they still closed the doors. No advantage over a separate company distributing the product here. A previous post suggested since SYM was not distributing product directly in the US that this is a negative. My point in bringing up Suzuki is that is not necessarily true. So far Alliance appears to be executing a very good business plan, as a customer I am happy with SYM, my local dealer and Alliance.

[hexnut]

Originally Posted by HBrew

The point is was it corporate Suzuki? if so they still closed the doors. No advantage over a separate company distributing the product here. A previous post suggested since SYM was not distributing product directly in the US that this is a negative. My point in bringing up Suzuki is that is not necessarily true. So far Alliance appears to be executing a very good business plan, as a customer I am happy with SYM, my local dealer and Alliance.

No I believe this was Suzuki USA. This had no bearing on suzuki Japan.

I don't know about the others but Kymco USA is 100% owned by Kymco Taiwan. They bought them out a couple of years ago.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...uptcy/1684843/

[MOPED MEDIC]

Originally Posted by HBrew

The point is was it corporate Suzuki? if so they still closed the doors. No advantage over a separate company distributing the product here. A previous post suggested since SYM was not distributing product directly in the US that this is a negative. My point in bringing up Suzuki is that is not necessarily true. So far Alliance appears to be executing a very good business plan, as a customer I am happy with SYM, my local dealer and Alliance.

No, they didn't close the doors, they stopped selling cars in the US. The point is that manufacturers can and are willing to weather a money losing year or two, and have the ability to do so. Most of the distributors bolt or cut way back when the market tanks.
Now, just so you fully understand the difference between dealing with the company you are dealing with and a manufacturer that distributes their own product, try buying body panels for a 2006 Lance, and then try buying them for any 1995 Honda or Yamaha scooter.

[HBrew]

Originally Posted by MOPED MEDIC

No, they didn't close the doors, they stopped selling cars in the US. The point is that manufacturers can and are willing to weather a money losing year or two, and have the ability to do so. Most of the distributors bolt or cut way back when the market tanks.
Now, just so you fully understand the difference between dealing with the company you are dealing with and a manufacturer that distributes their own product, try buying body panels for a 2006 Lance, and then try buying them for any 1995 Honda or Yamaha scooter.

Manufacturers can leave a market just a fast as a separate business distributing when they decide it is not profitable enough. Suzuki stopped selling cars in the US, even though they could have afforded to keep taking losses for years. I own an Izuzu they are still around but no longer sell cars in the US, even though they could have afforded to lose money in this market for years. There is a lot more to the equation than a company distributing product directly in a market.

[Murgatroid]

At the risk of bring this thread back on topic, I plan to test ride the HD200 today. The more I think about my bike roadmap, the more I think it makes sense to get a lighter scooter. I can get a more tour oriented bike or scooter in the future. I do like the idea of being able to carry a scooter with me on a hitch carrier on the front of my truck camper. 300lbs is about the max I'd feel comfortable doing that.

So far my attempts to check out the BV350 have been thwarted! I stopped by the dealer in Walnut Creek on my way to the bay area yesterday, but they were still closed for the holidays. This dealer has hours that pretty much guarantee that I can't just stop by on my weekly trip up and back home. The closest dealer with stock is in SF and I'll be near there today looking at the HD200, but their BV350 is in storage and the guy who knows where that is and how to retrieve the bike is not in until tomorrow.

It may be just as well. I'd rather spend less money anyway.

[chazbird]

But didn't you first mention that you'd use this new scooter for riding, at elast sometimes, between the Sierra foothills and Silicon Valley? I live in Oakland and go to the Sierra's on a BV250, its perfect...for the back roads, (think through the Delta or across the valley on country roads) and OK for limited freeway use, but for slogging it on 80 over the Carniquez Bridge or over the Altamont, (yuck!!) it, and the rider, is over taxed. Sure you can do it, I can, and sometimes do, but the bike is typically running 85% WOT, and up the Altamont into a headwind its WOT and skirting around the semi-trucks, not pretty. The BV350 would be a big step up, maybe perfect. I don't imagine a 200 cutting it at all. Yes, disclosure time, I lust after a BV350, it seems perfect. And once you see one in person it makes the lust worse.