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Old 01-04-2013, 05:25 PM   #46
icebox
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cx

Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Maybe most people just weigh a lot more than me, but all reports are the versys 650 has similar power to a v-strom, and the wee has no power problems.

Now, wanting more power for fun or whatever, sure, but in terms of getting on the slab quickly and passing, ~60 hp is fine.


that's, what, 475 lbs of bike plus lets say 50 lbs of accessories, 332 lbs of riders and gear and lets say another 50 lbs of stuff = 907 / 60 ~= 15.1 lb/hp.


A honda accord coupe 4 cylinder 5-speed is 3311 lbs without a driver, 190 hp, which is 17.42 lb/hp. No driver, no passenger, no luggage.


The accord is not "down on power" and does highways absolutely fine, even ones over mountains. (Yes, the strom and versys have a bit more power than used above.)


Maybe "many riders" are those that tally much more than 350 with a pillion and gear?

cx, hate to tell you but a motorcycle has the drag of the average barn door, an Accord is pretty aero, and a Strom, had one, with a passenger, and luggage is about as aerodynamic as a barn going sideways. Add elevation power loss of 3% / 1000' and at 7,000' your loaded 48 HP Wee gets pretty weak headed West into a 40 MPH head wind.
Besides, in the Accord you can roll up the windows so the buffeting doesn't make you deaf. Sometimes there is no substitute for cubic inches, or centimeters.

Now as to the OP, I get the winter "buy another bike itch" every year, and winter has a lot to do with it. My winters are worse than yours, as soon as I can get back on, the itch seems to fade. Right now, 6 F, and going down to minus something I might need to buy two.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:54 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icebox View Post
cx, hate to tell you but a motorcycle has the drag of the average barn door, an Accord is pretty aero, and a Strom, had one, with a passenger, and luggage is about as aerodynamic as a barn going sideways. Add elevation power loss of 3% / 1000' and at 7,000' your loaded 48 HP Wee gets pretty weak headed West into a 40 MPH head wind.
Besides, in the Accord you can roll up the windows so the buffeting doesn't make you deaf. Sometimes there is no substitute for cubic inches, or centimeters.

Now as to the OP, I get the winter "buy another bike itch" every year, and winter has a lot to do with it. My winters are worse than yours, as soon as I can get back on, the itch seems to fade. Right now, 6 F, and going down to minus something I might need to buy two.
I'n not sure who cx is.

Ah yes, 40 mph headwinds at 7000 feet. Sure, that happens every day (outside of the Rockies and Sierras, not much at all in the US). My bike had plenty of power (sans headwind) around 5000-6000 feet on a steep grade, two up. Around here, elevations anywhere close to that and no wind would be only a headwind for long, and then you've got other problems, problems cars aren't immune to either (40mph side wind sucks no matter what vehicle you're in). Sustained winds that speed are rare here, are they an everyday thing where you live?

The same story is true with a Honda fit as with an accord, with even worse power numbers. You don't need more than 65 hp to tour at legal speeds unless you're ridiculously over the GVWR of the bike.


An engine is a pump, so power loss at altitude (temperature held constant) is just due to air density. Assuming the same air temp, you've got 781.858 milibars at 7k, and 1013.25 at sea level (of course, more like 984-998 where I live):

781.858/1013.25 = 77.163% of sea level air density, and thus 77.163% as much air can flow through the engine.

65hp * 77.163 = 50.156 (again, same air temperatures assumed),

I suppose if you lived at that elevation you might get bent out of shape about it, but the majority of the US land area is at far lower elevations.



Nothing wrong with wanting more power than that, but need it? no. I suppose if you want to sit at 95mph actual at 7,000 feet into a 40 mph headwind you need a busa, but otherwise...
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:09 PM   #48
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A little analysis of the current dilemma if I may.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
Every year about this time I get the desire to trade in or sell my current bike and buy a new, bigger fancier bike....

I think this comes from not being able to ride for 4 months.
By this admission, you are merely mirroring a crisis that every enthusiast endures through the winter doldrums. The solution for this is to read more RR's and more You Tubing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmason View Post
I don't know you so I could be wrong, but I don't think you need a new bike, I think you need to ride more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post

I think I ride a fair amount.....I put about 7k miles on the bike last season.

and no I don't have any real good reason to trade up...want is the biggest factor.
I concur with riding more. 7K is reasonable, many do that in a month. How much of that was 2-Up? You state that the Mrs. isn't overly fond of it so why upgrade to accomodate her. My Mrs. knows fully well my love of riding and has expressed some interest to go for a jaunt. Four years later her ass has never touched the seat yet, and I am more than OK with that.

In two of your posts you express your disdain in travelling an hour to check out a new ride. Whether that be via 2 or 4 wheeled travel, it hardly personifies the mindset of an ADV adventurer. Perhaps you need to take a step back and evaluate who or why you are ready to unload more cash for.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:40 AM   #49
Rinty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
...she isn't all that into riding anyway
Well, that simplifies things considerably. Perhaps she would enjoy travelling together in a sports car?

Quote:
Maybe "many riders" are those that tally much more than 350 with a pillion and gear? phOrk
That might be some of them. Or it could be riders who live in the West and want lots of power for passing strings of trucks and RVs in the high passes of the Rockies. But everyone's power wants are different. I met this lovely couple at the Stanley Stomp, and who had ridden an R60/2 all the way from California, and brought along a guitar. They were perfectly happy:



Another couple I met in Waterton Townsite had just ridden a 250 cc scooter over the Going to the Sun Pass, much of which was gravel, that year.

Rinty screwed with this post 01-05-2013 at 11:03 AM
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:45 PM   #50
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I will never be a world traveler on a bike....but I do get around the north east quite a bit. that said....

Stop throwing logic at me.....its not about need.


and I put a deposit down this morning.....so deal done

Took two buddies with me to talk me out of it......they didn't even try
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Offcamber screwed with this post 01-05-2013 at 03:50 PM
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:46 PM   #51
icebox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
I'n not sure who cx is.

Ah yes, 40 mph headwinds at 7000 feet. Sure, that happens every day (outside of the Rockies and Sierras, not much at all in the US). My bike had plenty of power (sans headwind) around 5000-6000 feet on a steep grade, two up. Around here, elevations anywhere close to that and no wind would be only a headwind for long, and then you've got other problems, problems cars aren't immune to either (40mph side wind sucks no matter what vehicle you're in). Sustained winds that speed are rare here, are they an everyday thing where you live?

The same story is true with a Honda fit as with an accord, with even worse power numbers. You don't need more than 65 hp to tour at legal speeds unless you're ridiculously over the GVWR of the bike.


An engine is a pump, so power loss at altitude (temperature held constant) is just due to air density. Assuming the same air temp, you've got 781.858 milibars at 7k, and 1013.25 at sea level (of course, more like 984-998 where I live):

781.858/1013.25 = 77.163% of sea level air density, and thus 77.163% as much air can flow through the engine.

65hp * 77.163 = 50.156 (again, same air temperatures assumed),

I suppose if you lived at that elevation you might get bent out of shape about it, but the majority of the US land area is at far lower elevations.



Nothing wrong with wanting more power than that, but need it? no. I suppose if you want to sit at 95mph actual at 7,000 feet into a 40 mph headwind you need a busa, but otherwise...
In fluid dynamics, the drag coefficient (commonly denoted as: cd, cx or cw) is a dimensionless quantity that is used to quantify the drag or resistance of an object in a fluid environment such as air or water.

All that to prove I was off by 2.156 HP, 48 vs. 50.146, but maybe the barometric pressure was lower that day. I LIKE 650 Vee Stroms, nice bike, and capable of most anything with the right rider. And yes I live at 7000' and if you cross Wyoming or much of Montana 40 MPH head winds, tailwinds are a hoot, are not uncommon. In fact most days we ride we deal with strong winds coming home.

So what did the OP buy? I am jealous. Spending way too much time in the flea market, luckily new bikes are at least a hundred miles away.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:49 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icebox View Post

So what did the OP buy? I am jealous. Spending way too much time in the flea market, luckily new bikes are at least a hundred miles away.
2012 Super Tenere can't wait till spring!
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:08 PM   #53
icebox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
2012 Super Tenere can't wait till spring!
Congrats!!!!! one of the good things about winter is you have time to add bling to old or new. Minus 24 F this morning up here, so a warm shop, cold beer, and work on the SO's bike, new PIAAs and suspension on one of mine. Enjoy the ride, spring is just around the corner.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:32 PM   #54
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and to finally wrap up the thread...here it is home safe and sound....


What a crappy day to pick up a bike roads were covered with wet crud....covered the bike as best we could....needs a good cleaning....
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:27 PM   #55
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Very nice!

Jim
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:53 PM   #56
soldierguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
gee whiz - I have been jonesing for a Versys (no money though, so don't get your hopes up ) for a second bike to go with my big old hairy overweight cruiser...
I don't know where the hell my mind is, but when I read that sentence, instead of "cruiser" I saw "wife."

Made me spit out my tea with laughter.


Carry on.


OP: Nice S-10!
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:26 PM   #57
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Whatever you do, don't go to a Ducati Demo Day. And DEFINITELY do NOT NOT NOT go to a Ducati Demo Day at a racetrack.

That was six months ago for me . . . and my hands STILL have not forgotten the feel of that 1199 Panigale . . .

(Or the Hypermortard. The 1199 is a rocketship that is designed exclusively for the racetrack. The Hypermotard is a hooligan machine designed to do nothing but accumulate points on your license as fast as possible)
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:05 PM   #58
icebox
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Nice!!!!

Now you need a trip to Yellowstone, and a ride across the Gravelly Range. It's a bit cold here right now though.
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