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Old 01-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #91
tundra61
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If younger riders are on the decline, I suppose price could have something to do with it, but I think all the restrictions on off road riding also has a big effect,

I know for me personally, had I not ridden dirt fro the ages of 10-17 I would have probably never bought my first street bike when I was old enough.

Also, I have many friends at BMW NA and their bike sales have never been better.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:45 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
only if your motorcycle is less than 500cc and your comparing it to a 3/4 ton pickup


compare a 600cc or larger bike to an economy car, the car wins with lower cost per mile every day of week
What part of the budget am I missing then? Cause cost per mile (if we're comparing a reliable car with a reliable motorcycle) the motorcycle is cheaper. Of course it may not be the most economical cause you cannot haul things like the rest of your family but that is not what I am claiming.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:00 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by MOzarkRider View Post
....New car costs avg. around $25K insurance is $100 a month, and it gets an mpg avg of 25 (of course this is all reletive)
Somebody looking for economical transportation and considering a motorcyle to save money, doesn't buy an average car. You can get a NEW economy car for $12,000 and it can get 30 - 35 MPG. It is enclosed from the rain and snow and dust and cold, and has heat. You don't have to get put on riding gear. It will be MUCH safer in a collision. It will have cargo space for a grocery run or shopping trip. Oh yeah, and less likely to get stolen.

For the typical U.S. resident a car is much more practical as a single vehicle. A motorcycle would typically be an add-on for nice weather. (Don't bother posting up that you have a bike-only; you're the exception, you can even consider yourself a friggin' hero, okay?) For SPORT; in the U.S. motorcycles are seldom transportation and mostly sport or hobby.

In Europe cities are chock full of scooters and smaller motos parked in every little corner. In U.S. cities people post all the time about theft or damage and parking tickets, so even though it is difficult and expensive to park a car, it is iffy if a motorcycle offers much advantage. Unless fuel here goes up to say $7/gallon, the fuel savings are not going to be enough to compensate for the reduced practicality.

You can keep trying to preach to the choir on a moto forum, but bikes are NOT usually "transportation" in the U.S. Look around most any workplace parking lot. Cars, cars, cars. Motos are predominately for hobby or "sport".
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:29 PM   #94
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There are a couple trends that are influencing the notion that the industry is in decline, but in no way (unless the health and safety nazis get their way) is the industry "doomed".

First is economic. If by youth you are referring to the "millennials" or the generation who spent their formative years around the turn of the century, then their purchasing ability has been severely restricted by the worst economic climate in 90 years. Surveys have indicated that millennials don't want the hassle of owning their own car or motocycle and prefer public transportation or car sharing. But it is unclear whether it is really a cultural change or purely a result of a generation that is learning to be more frugal. 53% of recent college grads are un- or under-employed.

The second trend is the rebelliousness of youth and blazing their own path. If you can, remember what it was like growing up. You didn't want to act/dress/drive/associate with brands like an old person, anyone over 30. Harley is intentionally chasing the Boomer generation and are succeeding in extracting their dollars. The number of "boomerang" riders out on the road are the fasting growing segment. On the other hand, millenials see H-D as bikes for their parents and are not interested. Instead I see them flocking to anything anti-cruiser; hipster mopeds and scooters or for those with some money sexy Ducatis, or the most recent trend, the motard.

The decline is cyclical. As the economy improves motos will be an option for more young people. But don't expect the industry to look like what you are used to. The next generation will blaze their own path and will shape the future to fit their needs as their purchasing power rises and Boomers increasingly hang up their helmets.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:42 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
So... What do you race?
I used to race motocross. You?
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:04 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
Somebody looking for economical transportation and considering a motorcyle to save money, doesn't buy an average car. You can get a NEW economy car for $12,000 and it can get 30 - 35 MPG. It is enclosed from the rain and snow and dust and cold, and has heat. You don't have to get put on riding gear. It will be MUCH safer in a collision. It will have cargo space for a grocery run or shopping trip. Oh yeah, and less likely to get stolen.
Sure you could make the argument that there are economy cars that get 35 MPG but I was taking an Average because you can also purchase a NEW Ninja250 or CBR250 economy motorcycle for $4000 and get 65 MPG. Add $1500 for gear and still be cheaper than an economy car.

And again I cannot argue that a car offers protection against the elements and can carry your family. I own a car because I need to get stuff that my bike cannot carry like kids and groceries and such.

The point I am making is that mile per mile a motorcycle will cost you less money to transport yourself around.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:41 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Sticky Throttle View Post
I used to race motocross.
So at one point riding was indeed a "sport"
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:21 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Because the only part of the definition that could possibly apply is highlighted in yellow.
Let me fix that for you since your highlighter obviously broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Throttle View Post
Sorry, I'm trying to understand your point but have no idea where "trivial" came from in the definition of sport, or where that term applies to something that's a passion/sport for many here.

www.dictionary.com
Sport [spawrt, spohrt] noun
1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. Note it says often of a competitive nature but not always
2.a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3.diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
4.jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously.
5.mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him.

My points were and still are:

1. Motorcycling doesn't have to be racing to be a sport; a spirited track-day ride, dual-sporting to Alaska, or bettering your skills for more than just transportation can be sport.
2. Not being a racer (past or present) doesn't automatically make one a poseur.

Oh, and BTW, apologies to the OP and others for the hijack. Perhaps this subject deserves its own thread.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:51 PM   #99
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So you're saying your a poseur then.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:06 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeythumpa View Post



On the other hand, millenials see H-D as bikes for their parents and are not interested. Instead I see them flocking to anything anti-cruiser; hipster mopeds and scooters or for those with some money sexy Ducatis, or the most recent trend, the motard.
Is this your opinion or do you have stats to back it up?
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:02 PM   #101
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Only when I strike that pose while racin'
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:08 PM   #102
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most young people around here make 7.25-9.00 /hr... the few 5% get lucky and make 10+/hr. if you have a full time job you're a lucky bastard.

I dont know about the rest of you guys around the U.S., but every factory wants to hire us young guys as temps for 8.00 / hr no benefits. retail wants to pay 7.60 /hr and fast food wants to pay 7.25. my college classes went up 30% this year, my books are all well over $150.. each. The cheapest apartment i found was 550 /mnth... if i paid electric and water... cheap cars out the door are over 20,000 now. Insurance for a USED car is 100/mnth + until we're 25 years old. Ive lost a lot of weight surviving on 2 dollars per day for food. haha

young people are doing college with loans they'll pay back later, buying cars with money they don't have, and borrowing money off their parents/friends to pay rent.

hard to pay for a bike when my generation is bringing home 250-400 dollars every 2 weeks. Everyone that rides around here has gray hair.

edit: oh i failed to mention, several people i graduated with never took the driver's ed class. many of them still don't drive. heck, my sister doesn't even drive and she's 22.... come to think of it, I bet 1 in 4 of my friends doesnt have a license. not because they got suspended, but because they just never bothered. it's too expensive to own a car. I bet this is happening all over the country, especially in the city.

I bet this is the worst time in U.S. history to be a young person. In 1968, when minimum wage was 1.80, gas was 25c per gallon. so, 1 hour of work could pay for 7 gallons of gas. you'd be lucky to get 2 gallons for 1 hour now... a mid grade car back then, like a chevy bel air, was around 2700 dollars. at 1.80, it took roughly 1500 hours to pay it off. today a midgrade chevy, like a malibu, around 25,000 dollars, would take roughly 3,500 hours to pay off at minimum wage.

Matt, I don't know where you are located, but here, minimum wage is $8.25/hour. I see and hear a lot of young people griping about the money they make. But I also see a lot of them working at Starbucks, McDonalds, WalMart, Trader Joe's, mostly just selling shit to people. I don't know what you expect, but those are minimum wage jobs and aren't going to change anytime soon (or ever).

I know people with Sociology degrees that can't find work that pays over $12.00/hour. Same with History and Art degrees. But my boss/lead guy, in a factory machine shop, is 28 years old. Came up out of the shop, and I don't know if he even finished high school or any kind of college. He makes over $100,000/year. Through hard work and sticking with it. I know plumbers that make a damn good wage. Tile setters. Welders. Machinists (like me). Nurses that make over $50/hour. My point is, that there are some really good paying jobs out there. But like my stepkid put it, "I don't want to do that kind of work, I want to do what I love". Hate to tell him, but that isn't going to happen. He wants to make movies. But they aren't going to come knocking on his door, when he is off from his retail job, and ask him if he wants to make movies, especially since it would cut into his getting drunk time, which is pretty much any time he's off of work.

Not sure what to tell you. There are trades that pay very well, and that you can start your own business after a certain amount of training/apprentice time. But very few people seem to want to work with their hands these days(except for the illegal aliens).

You've got options. And although a lot of people don't believe it, you can still live the American Dream. Or you can sit around bitching about how the rich man is keeping you down, and smoke and drink your brains out.

And, it's a sport.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:12 PM   #103
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Only when I strike that pose while racin'
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:24 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
Matt, I don't know where you are located, but here, minimum wage is $8.25/hour. I see and hear a lot of young people griping about the money they make. But I also see a lot of them working at Starbucks, McDonalds, WalMart, Trader Joe's, mostly just selling shit to people. I don't know what you expect, but those are minimum wage jobs and aren't going to change anytime soon (or ever).

I know people with Sociology degrees that can't find work that pays over $12.00/hour. Same with History and Art degrees. But my boss/lead guy, in a factory machine shop, is 28 years old. Came up out of the shop, and I don't know if he even finished high school or any kind of college. He makes over $100,000/year. Through hard work and sticking with it. I know plumbers that make a damn good wage. Tile setters. Welders. Machinists (like me). Nurses that make over $50/hour. My point is, that there are some really good paying jobs out there. But like my stepkid put it, "I don't want to do that kind of work, I want to do what I love". Hate to tell him, but that isn't going to happen. He wants to make movies. But they aren't going to come knocking on his door, when he is off from his retail job, and ask him if he wants to make movies, especially since it would cut into his getting drunk time, which is pretty much any time he's off of work.

Not sure what to tell you. There are trades that pay very well, and that you can start your own business after a certain amount of training/apprentice time. But very few people seem to want to work with their hands these days(except for the illegal aliens).

You've got options. And although a lot of people don't believe it, you can still live the American Dream. Or you can sit around bitching about how the rich man is keeping you down, and smoke and drink your brains out.

And, it's a sport.


I wanted to do what I loved too, so I learned a skill or "trade" and can now afford the sport of riding dirt bikes pretty much whenever I please. It's rad.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:31 PM   #105
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I'm 24, just started as an engineer at Ford after graduating college a few months ago and just bought my second bike. I picked up a used 2011 F800 GS. There are some of us younger folks around, but I would say we are few. I can only name two of my friends that ride. I have gotten plenty of shit from people saying that I'm going to get hurt or how ridiculous it is to be spending so much money on a motorcycle. I also think its a matter of how people in general spend their time. I road race a neon, mountain bike, brew beer and have tons of other hobbies, but most of my friends just watch the boob tube and get drunk on the weekends. I spend lots of money on my hobbies compared to other people, but I don't spend hardly anything on going out or buying nice things like clothes and electronics. When everyone feels they need the latest and greatest trends and spend $250 a month on cable, internet and a cell phone, expendable cash gets low. I guess its all priorities.
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