Glass Powder, Fog Lines and an epic high side - Page 2

O.C.F.RIDER · 01-10-2013, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephvman

That's crazy! Six broken bones and a serious concussion, and EMS missed it all and told you to ride home?

EMS around here don't offer x-ray's or CT scans, so unless something was very obviously broken, how would they know???
The concussion, they should have been able to figure that one out.

MTKNZ · 01-10-2013, 08:40 AM

Sorry to hear about your 'little incident',
I am impressed you managed to not have one for 47 years of riding, excellent work there, must have some good skills.
I would suggest maybe another lawyer if this one doesn't like to sue the state and you should probably get a copy of the incident reports from the LEO's and FD staff who responded.
If you were told to "go ahead and ride home", that is one thing, but if you were recorded as 'insisting you could ride home' (refusing treatment) that is something else. SOP's are not always followed but reports should indicate if not and why not. In a former life I was a paramedic and clearly someone failed to examine you sufficiently to discover your injuries, in my experience there's not too many reasons that can happen and you should definitely find out which one is recorded.
(That's not to say it happened that way but that is what got recorded!)
Either way there is no way you should have been permitted to leave the scene with those injuries.
Hopefully you also had the presence of mind to have someone take photo's of the accident scene showing the excess powder/spheres and skid marks while they were still visible? (you said you went back there, I figured that was why)
I am not suggesting you try to get rich off this, but if you can get your medical expenses covered that would probably help things out. The next rider might not be in a position to complain....

Either way, I hope you heal fast and heal well.
Keep riding as well as you always have, I hope your next accident will be another 47 years away!

Before anyone kicks me for suggesting this course of action...
I used to know a guy who had an accident and got sent on his way with a concussion.
He went home and felt like cr*p, took some aspirin and had a nap on the couch. He woke up bleeding from the nose and could not make it stop. He went to hospital later that night and died on the table from a ruptured blood vessel in his head.
Concussions can be deadly if not treated, one bad enough to affect the pupils is very serious.

Josephvman · 01-10-2013, 10:18 AM

Well, let me go out on a limb here and assume that their "training" would be able to help them identify a broken bone without the bone actually sticking out of the limb! One of my dogs broke a bone and I was able to figure it out, and other than very limited communication with regard to walks, food, and dog biscuits, he can't talk!

I'm not saying that EMS should be able to completely diagnose all injuries at the scene, but to not take the guy to the hospital for X-rays, and even worse let him ride off on his motorcycle, is inexcusable in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.C.F.RIDER

EMS around here don't offer x-ray's or CT scans, so unless something was very obviously broken, how would they know???
The concussion, they should have been able to figure that one out.

manfromthestix · 01-10-2013, 10:55 AM

I had a similar experience near the Purgatory ski area between Durango and Silverton, Colorado a few years ago. We'd ridden up earlier in the day and the DOT had just finished paving a short section of road, a nice, tight curve and the straight leading to the next curve. Later in the day I had to return to Silverton and on the way up from Durango I rode through a fresh line-paint job on that stretch. Before I knew what was going on it felt like I'd had both tires go flat instantly, sliding and wobbling around. I could see the shimmer of the glass beads across the pavement and a couple piles about a foot high where the application machine had apparently malfunctioned. Luckily this was in the straight section and not the curve so I didn't go down, but that was by far the slickest crap I have ever ridden a motorcycle through! I finished my errand in Silverton, headed back to Durango and found that in the interim 45 minutes or so the passing car traffic had blown most of the glass beads off the roadway.

I don't normally advocate looking for someone to blame and sue whenever something bad happens, but as stated above it does appear there was a lot of negligence involved in your crash. Those beads should have been cleaned up and the emergency personnel should never have let you back on the bike without a visit to the ER first. I feel differently about those glass beads than I do about the gravel laid down when the pavement is "chip sealed" or a sand/salt mixture is spread on the roads after a snow storm, by the way; those are a known, obvious hazard and no one expects the DOT to sweep all the highways after repair or sanding.

Glad you're OK, heal well!

Doug

FAW3 · 01-10-2013, 11:20 AM

Glad your on the mend...good informative post for us all.

I've had two "lessons" in the past summer, not "go downs" but serious "pucker ups"

1: Same thing...loose/excess glass balls/beads on a fresh paint job on pavement.
2: Tire shine overspray...in my driveway.

Ride safe!

Irish John · 01-10-2013, 01:49 PM

I appreciate everyone's input and get well wishes. I am pursuing this and if anything actually comes of it, I'll give an update. In the mean time, everyone keep safe out there.

pedalmike · 01-11-2013, 08:27 AM

I had a similar experience on my normal bicycle commute here in Connecticut. A 4 way intersection on my normal route had the marked crosswalks at the intersection repainted and had glass powder applied over the paint. As I took a right turn at the intersection on a green light the horizon inverted and I was down in an instant. Had a fairly big patch of road rash on my hip but no other injuries.

Walking back to the crosswalk, I could see leftover glass powder accumulated and could feel how slippery it was underfoot.

So in addition to the painted highway lines, watch the surface at crosswalks and other road surface markings too.

At the end of the day, I assigned a portion of the blame for the crash to myself for not noticing the change in the road surface.

Hope the healing goes well.

qkenf4u · 01-11-2013, 08:57 PM

im curious about what helmet you wear that didnt take a 30mph knock to head without knocking you out

.... ive been thru highsides(30+mph on poconos) & 60mph+ street crashes that i remember most if not all of with a helmet hit...

glad youre ok for the most part.. heal up well..

everycredit · 01-14-2013, 03:40 PM

Any loss of consciousness requires the person to be taken to the emergency department by ambulance. There's no debating this--this is SOP for anyone trained in trauma medicine. But since you made it home alright, I don't know if you were "injured" by this decision, so I don't know if a lawsuit is winnable (or even warranted).

The glass beads are a different story altogether. Someone needs to pay for that, either through improper use, training, or sheer negligence.

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not sue happy. This is not being sue happy--you deserve to be made "whole". Your insurance company (if you have one or one that covered this accident) would be happy to sue to get their money back.

Call your local bar association for a referral.

Pansy · 01-15-2013, 01:07 PM

It's a shame but sometimes it takes suing to make a company or state agency more aware that their practices aren't safe. I bet it never occurred to the guys putting down the beads that a motorcycle might wreck. They just aren't used to thinking about motorcycle safety.

Good luck, heal fast and thanks for the reminder that there's always something different to watching for!

rabbitears · 01-20-2013, 01:15 AM

Whether or not it's a lawsuit (or maybe just the threat of one), it definitely seems like it would be worthwhile following up both the lack of cleanup after the painting and the medical care with the relevant agencies/companies. It doesn't have to be a blame game but if we don't learn from our lessons, we stay dumb! This could be a learning moment for the contractors etc.

Glad you're OK, OP!

01-10-2013, 08:40 AM	#17
MTKNZ Touring Kiwi Joined: Mar 2009 Location: Texas right now.... Oddometer: 90	Irish John/Steve.... Sue or at least investigate Sorry to hear about your 'little incident', I am impressed you managed to not have one for 47 years of riding, excellent work there, must have some good skills. I would suggest maybe another lawyer if this one doesn't like to sue the state and you should probably get a copy of the incident reports from the LEO's and FD staff who responded. If you were told to "go ahead and ride home", that is one thing, but if you were recorded as 'insisting you could ride home' (refusing treatment) that is something else. SOP's are not always followed but reports should indicate if not and why not. In a former life I was a paramedic and clearly someone failed to examine you sufficiently to discover your injuries, in my experience there's not too many reasons that can happen and you should definitely find out which one is recorded. (That's not to say it happened that way but that is what got recorded!) Either way there is no way you should have been permitted to leave the scene with those injuries. Hopefully you also had the presence of mind to have someone take photo's of the accident scene showing the excess powder/spheres and skid marks while they were still visible? (you said you went back there, I figured that was why) I am not suggesting you try to get rich off this, but if you can get your medical expenses covered that would probably help things out. The next rider might not be in a position to complain.... Either way, I hope you heal fast and heal well. Keep riding as well as you always have, I hope your next accident will be another 47 years away! Before anyone kicks me for suggesting this course of action... I used to know a guy who had an accident and got sent on his way with a concussion. He went home and felt like cr*p, took some aspirin and had a nap on the couch. He woke up bleeding from the nose and could not make it stop. He went to hospital later that night and died on the table from a ruptured blood vessel in his head. Concussions can be deadly if not treated, one bad enough to affect the pupils is very serious. __________________ If you can't laugh at yourself, you're just not paying attention!

01-10-2013, 10:55 AM	#19
manfromthestix Lost in Space Joined: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Oddometer: 1,823	I had a similar experience near the Purgatory ski area between Durango and Silverton, Colorado a few years ago. We'd ridden up earlier in the day and the DOT had just finished paving a short section of road, a nice, tight curve and the straight leading to the next curve. Later in the day I had to return to Silverton and on the way up from Durango I rode through a fresh line-paint job on that stretch. Before I knew what was going on it felt like I'd had both tires go flat instantly, sliding and wobbling around. I could see the shimmer of the glass beads across the pavement and a couple piles about a foot high where the application machine had apparently malfunctioned. Luckily this was in the straight section and not the curve so I didn't go down, but that was by far the slickest crap I have ever ridden a motorcycle through! I finished my errand in Silverton, headed back to Durango and found that in the interim 45 minutes or so the passing car traffic had blown most of the glass beads off the roadway. I don't normally advocate looking for someone to blame and sue whenever something bad happens, but as stated above it does appear there was a lot of negligence involved in your crash. Those beads should have been cleaned up and the emergency personnel should never have let you back on the bike without a visit to the ER first. I feel differently about those glass beads than I do about the gravel laid down when the pavement is "chip sealed" or a sand/salt mixture is spread on the roads after a snow storm, by the way; those are a known, obvious hazard and no one expects the DOT to sweep all the highways after repair or sanding. Glad you're OK, heal well! Doug __________________ "If it doesn't blow smoke and make noise, it isn't a sport!" - radio ad for shop in Bozeman, MT

01-10-2013, 11:20 AM	#20
FAW3 Old wanderer Joined: Mar 2009 Location: No.VA. Oddometer: 307	Glad your on the mend...good informative post for us all. I've had two "lessons" in the past summer, not "go downs" but serious "pucker ups" 1: Same thing...loose/excess glass balls/beads on a fresh paint job on pavement. 2: Tire shine overspray...in my driveway. Ride safe! __________________

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01-10-2013, 01:49 PM	#21
Irish John ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Mar 2008 Location: Lawrence, KS Oddometer: 153	I appreciate everyone's input and get well wishes. I am pursuing this and if anything actually comes of it, I'll give an update. In the mean time, everyone keep safe out there.

01-11-2013, 08:27 AM	#22
pedalmike Horizontally Opposed Joined: Sep 2006 Oddometer: 118	I had a similar experience on my normal bicycle commute here in Connecticut. A 4 way intersection on my normal route had the marked crosswalks at the intersection repainted and had glass powder applied over the paint. As I took a right turn at the intersection on a green light the horizon inverted and I was down in an instant. Had a fairly big patch of road rash on my hip but no other injuries. Walking back to the crosswalk, I could see leftover glass powder accumulated and could feel how slippery it was underfoot. So in addition to the painted highway lines, watch the surface at crosswalks and other road surface markings too. At the end of the day, I assigned a portion of the blame for the crash to myself for not noticing the change in the road surface. Hope the healing goes well.

01-11-2013, 08:57 PM	#23
qkenf4u Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2009 Location: nice warm bike riding COTTONWOOD ARIZONA... Oddometer: 104	im curious about what helmet you wear that didnt take a 30mph knock to head without knocking you out .... ive been thru highsides(30+mph on poconos) & 60mph+ street crashes that i remember most if not all of with a helmet hit... glad youre ok for the most part.. heal up well..

01-14-2013, 03:40 PM	#24
everycredit Gnarly Adventurer Joined: May 2012 Location: Tacoma Oddometer: 267	Any loss of consciousness requires the person to be taken to the emergency department by ambulance. There's no debating this--this is SOP for anyone trained in trauma medicine. But since you made it home alright, I don't know if you were "injured" by this decision, so I don't know if a lawsuit is winnable (or even warranted). The glass beads are a different story altogether. Someone needs to pay for that, either through improper use, training, or sheer negligence. I'm not a lawyer and I'm not sue happy. This is not being sue happy--you deserve to be made "whole". Your insurance company (if you have one or one that covered this accident) would be happy to sue to get their money back. Call your local bar association for a referral.

01-15-2013, 01:07 PM	#25
Pansy Not much of an Adventurer Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Washington, IL... Key West of Illinois Oddometer: 11,717	It's a shame but sometimes it takes suing to make a company or state agency more aware that their practices aren't safe. I bet it never occurred to the guys putting down the beads that a motorcycle might wreck. They just aren't used to thinking about motorcycle safety. Good luck, heal fast and thanks for the reminder that there's always something different to watching for!

01-20-2013, 01:15 AM	#26
rabbitears Adventurer Joined: Dec 2012 Oddometer: 26	Whether or not it's a lawsuit (or maybe just the threat of one), it definitely seems like it would be worthwhile following up both the lack of cleanup after the painting and the medical care with the relevant agencies/companies. It doesn't have to be a blame game but if we don't learn from our lessons, we stay dumb! This could be a learning moment for the contractors etc. Glad you're OK, OP!