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Old 01-12-2013, 03:17 PM   #211
NJ-Brett
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I think the sr400 is 335 pounds.
Just a little bit more then my TU250.

I do not need any memory of how the old bike were, I still ride them.
The wife and I rate the bikes I go through, and the 2 best were old Triumphs.
The TU does well also.

My wife would be happy on an old cb350, but not the ninja 300...
I do not think I could spend all day on the cbr or the ninja.

Electric start adds about 14 pounds sounds right, starter, wires, bigger battery, bigger charging system.
Water cooling likely adds the same.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
And you think a SR400 will be light? A luggage rack looks like a luggage rack and a seat can be modded to be better if it even needs to be. So far after a few hours with a passenger, no complaints. In your golden years I fear your memory isn't quite that clear about the bikes of the 70s!

The 300 has gone 104 MPG in a press contest but then you'd have to ride it like an old man so no thanks!
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #212
Navin
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You never know till you try, I fear your mind is made up by the body work not the actual riding position.

Still, no shortage of CB350s you could buy for $5-6,000 which is where the SR400 would probably have to live. I have no doubt it would be dead on the sales floor though, mostly for the same reasons it failed in the 1970s. I like the style, but want 40-50 HP and wide ratio gearbox with good brakes front & rear. Forget trying to sell anyone on how great a drum brake is. They are sinple, they are cheap and they are dead because disc brakes are far superior despite added complexity and cost.

And I'll bet that SR is much closer to 350-370.
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:48 PM   #213
Navin
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Yamaha SR500
ManufacturerYamaha Motor Company
Also calledSR Thumper
Parent companyYamaha Corporation
Engine4-stroke 499 cc air-cooled, SOHC, single-cylinder, 2 valves per cylinder
Transmission5-speed
SuspensionF: 35 mm telescoping fork, 150 mm travel

R: 104 mm wheel travel, 5-way adjustable preload
Weight158 kg (350 lb) (dry)


Bet on it being the same wet weight as a Ninja 250-300.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:38 PM   #214
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I'll keep an eye on the 2 SR500s on ebay right now and let ya know what they sell for. Maybe they will break $5k? Maybe not?

That cherry one bid up to only $2500 and didn't meet the reserve. To me that makes it worth about $2500! Probably less than half the price of the 400 version we will never get.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:01 PM   #215
JerryH
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I'm not preaching, just stating my opinion. Though I have to admit I'm somewhat disgusted by what is coming out of Japan these days. Just because a motorcycle is new, why does it have to be ugly? I saw drawings of "futuristic" bikes, like the 700X, in magazines 30+ years ago, and wondered who would buy such a thing. I can see young people raised on Transformers and video games liking them, they never got to experience what I call "real" motorcycles. But it surprises me that older guys also like them, guys who probably rode bikes much like the SR400 in their youth.

As for the kickstart thing, I am almost 54, with bad knees, and cannot rid any bike that does not have at least a 90 degree knee angle without severe pain. But I can kickstart a small bike all day long. After putting a kickstarter on my Yamaha XT225, I almost never use the electric starter anymore. Something very satisfying about going out to the parking lot, getting on your bike, and kicking it to life. Sometimes I get really tired of living in a pushbutton world. For me, motorcycles are an ESCAPE from that kind of thing, a chance to do something for myself, and enjoy it.

As I have said a few times, I used to own a '66 Bonneville. After about 3 years I sold it, because it was so unreliable (though it was easy to work on. It was a beautiful bike, absolutely gorgeous. By far the best looking bike I have ever owned. And it had character. It vibrated and it made noise. I would give anything for a modern version of that bike, with modern reliability, but with the exact same looks, vibration, and sound. With todays manufacturing technology, that is totally possible, and it wouldn't even be expensive to do. Just measure an old Bonneville, and make everything on the outside the same size and shape. The new Bonneville is just a shadow of what it used to be. It looks good compared to most of what is out there, but it could have been made to look so much better. And it could have had vibration and noise. New Harleys do, why not Triumph? Anyone ever heard a rephased XS650? What a beautiful sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOITE_aSkXw This is what a new Bonneville COULD sound like. And notice the vibration.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:58 PM   #216
Süsser Tod
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Jerry just go and buy a cheap Chinese bike, you'll get tons of vibration, frame, swingarm, fork flex, plenty of stupid things will go wrong for no reason... They just ooze character!

Just think how lovely it will be to troubleshoot electrical gremlins in the middle of nowhere. The magic of wrenching 1 hour for every hour spent on the road!


In the meantime I'll be out there doing "nothing" as I get to see the world in my 2 wheeled appliance.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:54 AM   #217
Bud Tugly
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For better or worse, bikes are becoming more car-llike. Just push the magic button and away you go and it runs reliably for many thousands of miles with nothing more than routine maintenence. Fuel injection, water cooling, computer-contolled ignition, and anti-vibration systems make the engines smoother and more dependable than they used to be and all those ugly mechanical bits are hidden away behind sleek and colorful bodywork.

For many people that's the modern ideal essence of motorcycling, and while I see the appeal I respectfully disagree. To me a finned air-cooled engine is a thing of beauty and hiding it away behind a cooling jacket and bodywork is sacrilidge. Electric starters, liquid cooling, and electronic controls add weight and complexity and while they are becoming more reliable add components that have to be replaced when they do fail rather than adjusted or repaired by the home mechanic. ABS is becoming a rouitine component of modern bikes and how long will it be before someone comes up with other things like some sort of air bag system for added safety and hybrid technology to improve gas mileage?

For others (and we're probably a dwindling group), a motorcycle is a more visceral and visual experience. We favor simplicity over the ultimate in efficiency and actually enjoy tinkering once in a while to fine tune components, although reliability is certainly a huge plus. We get the appeal of bikes llike the SR400, the TU250, the Honda 1100, the new Triumph twins, and even (gasp) Harleys. They are efforts to make use of some of the good things from modern technology without losing the essence of what motorcycling is all about (at least to us).

Let's face it, the inernal combustion engine as we've know it has had a long and glorious run but its days are numbered. All it's going to take is a breakthrough in battery technology and most cars and motorcycles will be going over to electric power. Bikes like the Stealth and Zero models are nearly there already. Inside 20-30 years gas-powered engines will be becoming relics of a bygone era, and many of us will miss it.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:19 AM   #218
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drum brakes: so what, engine braking works very well on my xt500
no brake fluid leaks, seized calipers, warped rotors, pinched lines, blah blah blah

but the bottom line is this bike needs priced around 4k max. to have a chance of competing
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:01 AM   #219
Süsser Tod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plugeye View Post
drum brakes: so what, engine braking works very well on my xt500
no brake fluid leaks, seized calipers, warped rotors, pinched lines, blah blah blah

but the bottom line is this bike needs priced around 4k max. to have a chance of competing
Yamaha, sensible pricing?

If it does make it to the USA Yamaha will charge a premium for their "retro" bike not being "retro", just the real deal, a 30 year old design.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:27 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
Yamaha, sensible pricing?

If it does make it to the USA Yamaha will charge a premium for their "retro" bike not being "retro"
On the other hand the Super Tenere and FJR are at attractive price-points relative to their competion, I would be surprised if Yamaha would depart much from that approach here.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:25 PM   #221
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The SR400 sounds like a very nice bike with or without electric start.

If you think 400cc's is too small for you, you are correct.

Those who ride scooters who think 400cc's would be a nice size small/medium displacement, you're right too.

I'd love to see Yamaha bring this in to the US, just as I'm happy Honda is bringing the 500s, and the neat little CRF250L.

For once we're starting to get some variety in the cycle market that isn't focused on the 800cc and above market.

I'm grateful, and hope we see it here.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:59 PM   #222
NJ-Brett
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I would love a modern version of my 1969 Daytona, 340 pounds, 500cc air cooled twin, nice seat, good size bike for a normal size adult and his wife, very low center of gravity, but they could make it vibrate much less with lighter pistons and a balance setup, give it at least a 5 speed trans, make the clutch work right, eliminate oil leaks, and even save weight by using plastic and plated bores instead of cast iron cylinders.
Real electrical connections, a disk brake on the front to save weight, it would be easy to get more power out of a 500 twin then they did in the 60's.

I do not want lots of problems and vibration, I just want a light simple bike with old styling, and my TU250 is exactly what I want, but in a 350 or 400 cc size.

I can spend a LOT more and get a 550 pound 883 Sportster, a bike made for dwarfs, or a V7 classic 750, or a 550 pound new Bonneville 850, and unlike the old bikes, none come with a decent seat, and the suspension they chose to put on the new bikes is NOT better then the old stuff, its worse.

So modern retro bikes are worse in many respects, better in some.
They are reliable, do not leak, brakes are better, but they are heavy, have thin seats and crap suspensions.

The w650 was the closest they came to a good modern classic I think.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:36 AM   #223
JerryH
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"The SR400, the TU250, the Honda 1100, the new Triumph twins, the W650 and W800, Royal Enfields, Suzuki S40, and Harleys are all my type of bike, but Harley has by far the most character still left. You need to change the pipes to get all that character, but it is there. Sitting on a Harley at idle feels like using a jackhammer, and they sound like a top fuel dragster. And the look of the ancient air cooled pushrod v-twin has no equal. I would consider RE, but they are just to unreliable. That 30+ year old Yamaha would not be unreliable. The original SR500 was very reliable, way moreso than the Harleys of the time, and it would be still be just as reliable today. No reason it would be any more unreliable than a Honda XR650 or Suzuki DR650. Honda and Suzuki should put those engines in a retro styled bike, no make that a real retro bike, like the SR400. Kickstart and all.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:27 AM   #224
NJ-Brett
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I always thought a dr650 engine would be great in a street bike, and the dr650 makes a good street bike, even if the style is newish.
They are smooth and cool running, and with a few easy mods, make plenty of power.
360 pounds I think with all that suspension and a very strong frame, weight could be saved.
Twin spark plugs allows high compression on regular gas, the motor holds plenty of oil, and besides the weak 3rd gear, a good motor, and street riding would be easier on a transmission...

It would be easy to make a TU650.

All the modern sportsters are small in size and very heavy, the rubber mounted motor frame added about 40 pounds I think. The new Bonneville is also heavy, the motor seems large overall, but the suspension is way better then the sportsters, both have marginal seats to get short people to fit.
Somehow, the V7 classic is around 400 pounds, good for a 750 shaft drive bike, but I thinik its also on the small size.

I just do not understand why they need to install such poor suspension parts on many modern bikes.
Surely it would not cost more to use thicker oil in the shocks and get some damping, or give more then 2 inches of wheel travel.
While damping is slim, the shocks on the TU at least have a good spring rate for solo or 2 up, sommething none of the others managed to do.

And what is up with seats?
There seems to be very few new bikes that have anything more then 1/2 inch of foam, and less for a passenger.
From the V7, to sportsters, to the new Bonnevilles, the cbr250, and every dual sport, the seats all suck!
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:38 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I always thought a dr650 engine would be great in a street bike, and the dr650 makes a good street bike, even if the style is newish.
They are smooth and cool running, and with a few easy mods, make plenty of power.
360 pounds I think with all that suspension and a very strong frame, weight could be saved.
Twin spark plugs allows high compression on regular gas, the motor holds plenty of oil, and besides the weak 3rd gear, a good motor, and street riding would be easier on a transmission...

It would be easy to make a TU650.

All the modern sportsters are small in size and very heavy, the rubber mounted motor frame added about 40 pounds I think. The new Bonneville is also heavy, the motor seems large overall, but the suspension is way better then the sportsters, both have marginal seats to get short people to fit.
Somehow, the V7 classic is around 400 pounds, good for a 750 shaft drive bike, but I thinik its also on the small size.

I just do not understand why they need to install such poor suspension parts on many modern bikes.
Surely it would not cost more to use thicker oil in the shocks and get some damping, or give more then 2 inches of wheel travel.
While damping is slim, the shocks on the TU at least have a good spring rate for solo or 2 up, sommething none of the others managed to do.

And what is up with seats?
There seems to be very few new bikes that have anything more then 1/2 inch of foam, and less for a passenger.
From the V7, to sportsters, to the new Bonnevilles, the cbr250, and every dual sport, the seats all suck!
I've long thought that an updated SR500 type bike using the DR650 motor, i.e. a TU650, would be a fantastic bike.

I'm not sure how much of the weight gain is attributable to the rubber mount frame, but 2004 Sportsters actually weigh about 75 lbs more than the older rigid mounts. Approx. 500 pounds, depending on model, to 575 lbs.

The most comfortable stock seat I've had on a bike was a sprung cop seat on a '91 HD FXRP. The next most comfortable was a '90 Honda Hawk GT of all things.
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