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Old 01-15-2013, 10:01 AM   #241
Gryphon12
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At 41 Nm peak torque for the CB500's, and 27 Nm for the 300R, the new Ninja has 66% of the peak torque of the Honda. [A 50% step up to the Honda or a 34% step down to the Ninja.] That's almost a direct relationship to the displacement difference (296cc is 63% of 470cc). The difference in tuning for HP isn't quite so simple.

I'm waiting to see direct comparisons from the same riders on the same streets on the same day.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:33 AM   #242
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Typically the engine feel of a parallel twin has mostly to do with whether it uses a 180-deg, 270-deg, or 360-deg crank. Most riders say they prefer the sound and texture of a 360-deg crank parallel-twin like the F800 than the 180-deg crank like the EX500, Versys, and this new CB500. (All the old Honda CB engines from the 60's and 70's use 180-deg cranks and are criticized as sounding nasal and industrial. Conversely the old 360-deg crank Triumphs are loved for their engine sound.) The 270-deg cranks on bikes like the Triumph Scrambler and Yamaha S10 are designed to give the bikes a little of a v-twin lope.

It's all subjective, but I'll take the sound/feel (and extra power) of the 360-crank F800 over any of the 180-deg crank bikes any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

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Old 01-15-2013, 11:50 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
It's all subjective, but I'll take the sound/feel (and extra power) of the 360-crank F800 over any of the 180-deg crank bikes any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

- Mark
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The 650R makes much less power than the 800, but has a lighter flywheel and likes to rev. Fun. The F800 is a snoozer to ride, they seemingly tuned it to feel like a boxer motor, all torque and either the flywheel is real heavy or that high-tech counterbalancer is wasting energy. - Grainbelt
interesting. which one of you is the Democrat, and which one is the Republican?

I haven't ridden either one, so I cannot offer an opinion.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:29 PM   #244
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interesting. which one of you is the Democrat, and which one is the Republican?

I haven't ridden either one, so I cannot offer an opinion.
I did several test rides on an F800S before buying a Ninja 650r. The 360 firing order made that F800 launch like crazy. The amount of torque it had right off the line made me cackle like a madman. Sadly, they sold it about eight hours before I got there with my check, so I wound up getting the Ninja 650. Definitely a more rev-happy machine, and it felt much more playful when out on the twisty roads. I loved them both, but I'd say that the F800's engine was a slightly better engine for riding around town simply for that extra grunt down low.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:04 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Typically the engine feel of a parallel twin has mostly to do with whether it uses a 180-deg, 270-deg, or 360-deg crank. Most riders say they prefer the sound and texture of a 360-deg crank parallel-twin like the F800 than the 180-deg crank like the EX500, Versys, and this new CB500. (All the old Honda CB engines from the 60's and 70's use 180-deg cranks and are criticized as sounding nasal and industrial. Conversely the old 360-deg crank Triumphs are loved for their engine sound.) The 270-deg cranks on bikes like the Triumph Scrambler and Yamaha S10 are designed to give the bikes a little of a v-twin lope.

It's all subjective, but I'll take the sound/feel (and extra power) of the 360-crank F800 over any of the 180-deg crank bikes any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

- Mark
If you check you will find Honda built both 180 and 360 degree CB twins in that time frame. Popular 360s were the CB92 125, the CB160, CB175 , and home market versions of the CB450.

Since the introduction of the 800 twin one thing that remains constant in reviews of bikes equipped with it is the vibrations it produces at higher speeds. The bobweight counter balancer rotates in a larger radius arc than the more common balance shafts that are typically used to calm vibes in twins and fours. What is your take on the vibrations of the 800 compared to others?
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:36 PM   #246
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If you check you will find Honda built both 180 and 360 degree CB twins in that time frame. Popular 360s were the CB92 125, the CB160, CB175 , and home market versions of the CB450.
Interesting, thought Honda was almost universally a 180-deg company with their parallel twins. As you note, there are some exceptions.

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Since the introduction of the 800 twin one thing that remains constant in reviews of bikes equipped with it is the vibrations it produces at higher speeds. The bobweight counter balancer rotates in a larger radius arc than the more common balance shafts that are typically used to calm vibes in twins and fours. What is your take on the vibrations of the 800 compared to others?
I only have had a couple hours of seat time in the F800's, most of it in the F650. I thought they were quite smooth for a largish parallel twin. And I don't readily recall much journalism criticism of the engine's vibes - perhaps I missed it. I've never ridden a Versys. Most magazine articles that put the Versys up against the Suzuki 650 L-twins like the SV650, DL650, and Gladius like the the L-twin better. I owned a Wee for four years and thought it was exceptionally smooth for a twin, easily the smoothest of any I've ridden.

- Mark
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:54 PM   #247
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new commercial
thats funny - it looks like that was exclusively shot in the greater LA area. I think i've been on every single one of those roads.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:59 PM   #248
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Funny! Every other word in that commercial was "style". Very little performance-oriented equipment to brag about. Fuel economy is great, but they say "500 cc's" when the motor is actually displaces 470 cc's. Sloppy, or vague, but thoroughly disappointing "marketing".
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:20 PM   #249
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if i purchased a bike solely on a promo video, i would not buy one of these.. hahahaaa...

also, it would be nice if on the other video with the startup/gauge cluster, if they dude would keep his mouth shut.. yeahhhhh, that'd be great, m'kay? still want a CB500x.. for daily commute, should be perfect.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:55 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Funny! Every other word in that commercial was "style". Very little performance-oriented equipment to brag about. Fuel economy is great, but they say "500 cc's" when the motor is actually displaces 470 cc's. Sloppy, or vague, but thoroughly disappointing "marketing".
If you are in the market for a performance oriented bike, you'd be looking at the CBR600RR. These new bikes are aimed at the less hardcore rider who doesn't want to spend a ton of money and still get a fun, economical, and sporty looking bike, at less than half the cost of the supersport.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:07 AM   #251
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I just posted in the Honda 125 thread, but it bears repeating: in the UK & Europe new tiers just appeared in the licencing system.

At age 19-21, 47bhp will the most you can legally ride on the road. So these 500s from Honda are aimed at that demopgraphic. Aged 19, I would have felt cool as hell on one of these.

The other consideration is cost: claimed 76mpg (imperial), long service intervals, low insurance group. This is, sadly, a huge consideration over here, as we have very high fuel and insurance costs.

Personally I will seriously consider the 500X in a couple of years, with a view to handing it to my son when he is 19.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:07 PM   #252
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I like Honda's new emphasis on the lower end of the market. I have always believed a motorcycle should be practical, and to me once the price gets north of $10k the practicality really starts to fall off.

Having said that, even though I am interested in the CB500X, I am probably not going to be a customer. I doubt that a 500 would have the grunt I want. 650's and up look more realistic for me. But who knows, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. I remember when I was 12 or 13 years old and just starting to really get into motorcycling, I bought a copy of a magazine (I think it was Cycle) that had an article about a couple of guys riding from New York to San Francisco. One of them was riding a Honda CB450. I am sure he would have much preferred the CB500X.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:21 PM   #253
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I just posted in the Honda 125 thread, but it bears repeating: in the UK & Europe new tiers just appeared in the licencing system.

At age 19-21, 47bhp will the most you can legally ride on the road. So these 500s from Honda are aimed at that demopgraphic. Aged 19, I would have felt cool as hell on one of these.

The other consideration is cost: claimed 76mpg (imperial), long service intervals, low insurance group. This is, sadly, a huge consideration over here, as we have very high fuel and insurance costs.

Personally I will seriously consider the 500X in a couple of years, with a view to handing it to my son when he is 19.

47 HP limit but no weight requirements! A 270lbs 47 HP bike is a hoot & a half! They could have built a sweet scoot at 350/47 RWHP. I'd choose that over a CBR600RR all day, every day.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:58 PM   #254
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47 HP limit but no weight requirements! A 270lbs 47 HP bike is a hoot & a half! They could have built a sweet scoot at 350/47 RWHP. I'd choose that over a CBR600RR all day, every day.
Yeah but Honda has this problem with having to build bikes you can still give your to your kids after you wear it out. In order to have that kind of stamina they do make them heavy. The price point of 5000 US is going to rule out extensive use of alloys. What is that old saying? Light, Fast, Cheap - pick any two.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:04 PM   #255
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47 HP limit but no weight requirements! A 270lbs 47 HP bike is a hoot & a half! They could have built a sweet scoot at 350/47 RWHP. I'd choose that over a CBR600RR all day, every day.
It's called a 350 EXC-F (and maybe soon, a Duke 390).
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