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Old 01-17-2013, 08:00 AM   #14596
knybanjo
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now caselli is the last one in the group
It's got to be looking like a hare scramble at this point though!
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:00 AM   #14597
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Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
There you go trying to do math again...
Yeah I shoulda saved that one for the end of the stage.

Wp4 open! Woohoo! Faria not in yet! Chaleco not 2nd overall yet - we don't know! yay!
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:01 AM   #14598
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Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
OK, I'll go with that assumption for a second. So yesterday was a 220 km special (or, shortened by 30kms, 190km total). Helder starts, and because there is no refueling inside the stage, it means he has to calculate fuel at ASS for the whole special. So he fills up for say 220kms, + 10% for nav error, skipping out on, what another extra 4-5 liters? Yes! I hear you say, for extra performance!

Ok, bear with me. 4-5 extra liters of fuel, on -how much does the CRF weigh?- let's assume a 150-160 kilo bike, those 4-5 extra liters are about a 3-4% weight difference to the whole package...?

I'm no Helder, but that is negligible on a rally bike I would imagine, and if not, certainly not more important than having peace of mind to finish the damn day. Helder is no dork, I'd like to think.

Unless. And this is where it might get interesting. Unless he finds the CRF very quirky / the frame geometry weird / the rear suspension bitchy / there is an innate design flaw with how the bike carries it's weight when filled to the brim, and/or how the fuel is circulated when the tanks are topped up with gas.

Just pure speculation, wild guessing and pure innuendo...

We can't know, but I'm sure HRC experiments with different FI maps and settings between the different bikes and different stages. Remember the hi-res pics from the Mojave tests and the van with the different settings scribbled on it?
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:01 AM   #14599
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Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
OK, I'll go with that assumption for a second. So yesterday was a 220 km special (or, shortened by 30kms, 190km total). Helder starts, and because there is no refueling inside the stage, it means he has to calculate fuel at DSS for the whole special. So he fills up for say 220kms, + 10% for nav error, skipping out on, what another extra 4-5 liters? Yes! I hear you say, for extra performance!

Ok, bear with me. 4-5 extra liters of fuel, on -how much does the CRF weigh?- let's assume a 150-160 kilo bike, those 4-5 extra liters are about a 3-4% weight difference to the whole package...?

I'm no Helder, but that is negligible on a rally bike I would imagine, and if not, certainly not more important than having peace of mind to finish the damn day. Helder is no dork, I'd like to think.

Unless. And this is where it might get interesting. Unless he finds the CRF very quirky / the frame geometry weird / the rear suspension bitchy / there is an innate design flaw with how the bike carries it's weight when filled to the brim, and/or how the fuel is circulated when the tanks are topped up with gas.

Just pure speculation, wild guessing and pure innuendo...
No so wild guessing. I don't buy that any fuel volume issue that Helder has had, save perhaps the first, could have been due to short-filling.

We're not talking about having an extra 15L on a 660 Rallye here. As you say, the %'s are small in this case. I know these guys are pushing at the ragged edge, and will look for any advantage available, but the risk doesn't justify -- especially given the issues they've already had with the Honda.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:02 AM   #14600
knybanjo
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Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
Yeah I shoulda saved that one for the end of the stage.

Wp4 open! Woohoo! Faria not in yet! Chaleco not 2nd overall yet - we don't know! yay!
Chaleco @ +2:42
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:02 AM   #14601
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Originally Posted by Brodovitch View Post
OK, I'll go with that assumption for a second. So yesterday was a 220 km special (or, shortened by 30kms, 190km total). Helder starts, and because there is no refueling inside the stage, it means he has to calculate fuel at DSS for the whole special. So he fills up for say 220kms, + 10% for nav error, skipping out on, what another extra 4-5 liters? Yes! I hear you say, for extra performance!

Ok, bear with me. 4-5 extra liters of fuel, on -how much does the CRF weigh?- let's assume a 150-160 kilo bike, those 4-5 extra liters are about a 3-4% weight difference to the whole package...?

I'm no Helder, but that is negligible on a rally bike I would imagine, and if not, certainly not more important than having peace of mind to finish the damn day. Helder is no dork, I'd like to think.

Unless. And this is where it might get interesting. Unless he finds the CRF very quirky / the frame geometry weird / the rear suspension bitchy / there is an innate design flaw with how the bike carries it's weight when filled to the brim, and/or how the fuel is circulated when the tanks are topped up with gas.

Just pure speculation, wild guessing and pure innuendo...

Yepp ... I think you made a good point here. But still it's his own fault. Blame HRC for not building the bike he likes...
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:03 AM   #14602
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Si and Manuel both thru CP/WP1
JC thru WP2
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:04 AM   #14603
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:05 AM   #14604
Idle
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Maybe HRC ran a standard 16-20 L tank for testing and neglected to factor in the fuel needed just to haul the extra fuel? It's prolly would take at least a couple liters to pack that additional weight thru the sand.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:05 AM   #14605
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botturi is back on the right track, he went on the wrong direction for 7km....
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:06 AM   #14606
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Originally Posted by knybanjo View Post
Chaleco @ +2:42
He's right behind Despres on the stage. So all Cyril has to do is keep him close. That'll make a 3 min catchup for Lopez.

If Cyril can manage to finish 5th today, with Lopez close, then he stands to make up an easy 10 minutes tomorrow, without having to lead until the last day, which is short.

Unless the ASO decides to throw a multiplier into that stage, too.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:06 AM   #14607
knybanjo
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Originally Posted by Idle View Post
Maybe HRC ran a standard 16-20 L tank for testing and neglected to factor in the fuel needed just to haul the extra fuel? It's prolly would take at least a couple liters to pack that additional weight thru the sand.
A branch reached out and stole his sparkplug wire....don't you people read?!?







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Old 01-17-2013, 08:07 AM   #14608
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BUH! =)
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:07 AM   #14609
Brodovitch
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Originally Posted by knybanjo View Post
Chaleco @ +2:42
Overall at wp4

Despres
Faria +11.35
Chaleco +14.25

2.50, still doable till the end of today
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:08 AM   #14610
knybanjo
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Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
He's right behind Despres on the stage. So all Cyril has to do is keep him close. That'll make a 3 min catchup for Lopez.

If Cyril can manage to finish 5th today, with Lopez close, then he stands to make up an easy 10 minutes tomorrow, without having to lead until the last day, which is short.

Unless the ASO decides to throw a multiplier into that stage, too.
A likely scenario as Barreda seems to have some trouble with nav anyway.....
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