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Old 01-17-2013, 09:37 AM   #46
sanjoh
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:41 PM   #47
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Which thickness were you considering? Looks like about R5 per inch. Any thoughts on installation?
I will probably use the 2". My plan is to lay it across the 2x6's and use screws with washers to hold it up. It doesn't weigh much so it won't take much to hold it up there. Then I will use the foil tape to seal the seams.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:33 PM   #48
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If the rafter bays are regular and neat, why not just cut the foam panels to fit between the rafters tight to the sheathing? They will stay put w/ pressed in fit or with small cleats, you can add another layer now or in the future, they can be removed easily if required, it looks better/more interesting, and you will save some space/headroom.

My garage is done this way and it works fine.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:10 PM   #49
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If the rafter bays are regular and neat, why not just cut the foam panels to fit between the rafters tight to the sheathing? They will stay put w/ pressed in fit or with small cleats, you can add another layer now or in the future, they can be removed easily if required, it looks better/more interesting, and you will save some space/headroom.

My garage is done this way and it works fine.
I don't have a problem with headroom. There is no sheathing, look at my pics on the first page. It's a lot easier to grab a 4x8 piece and stick it to the ceiling than cutting it to fit a zillion different cubby holes. And then I will have the dead air space between the insulation board and the metal roof to add to the r value.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:37 PM   #50
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If those are 2x6 on the ceiling then r20 insulation would fit just nice. Looks like 24 inch centers ? And staple a heavy mil poly up there and it would be cheaper then the foam insulation and you would have a way better r value and less sound transmission as well. Covering with drywall would be nice but optional.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:21 PM   #51
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I have had the spray foam applied on a few different jobs, for myself and for customers. Cost is pretty much a dollar a board foot. So a buck an inch times your square footage. For your case I think you will be good with the two inch rigid foam. And $20 a sheet is good for 2", here it's going for $32
Do you have building codes where you are? Here in the City Code Enforcement would want the foam covered with a fireproof coating. Either drywall or a special spray on product that costs another dollar a sq ft.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:32 AM   #52
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I would just use some R19-R30 insulating batts with paper facing and staple the facing to the bottoms of the Joists. If your bays are too wide for 24" batts then you can use thin galvanized wire strung accross the joists about every 16-24" using roofing nailson each joist and wrap the wire around each nail. That creates a wire tray basically for your insulation to lay on.

In walls you can do the same technique to hold the insulation back into the stub bays.
This technique works great if you want to use thicker insulation that your studs or joists are....R13 is 3-1/2" thick and R30 is 10"....you could put R30 in a 2x4 joist or stud bay using the wire to retain it without over compressing it.

+1. This is how a pro would do it. Most insulative value for the buck. If the itchy bothers you, hire an insulation company to do it, likely still cheaper than all these other shiny products.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:58 AM   #53
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+1. This is how a pro would do it. Most insulative value for the buck. If the itchy bothers you, hire an insulation company to do it, likely still cheaper than all these other shiny products.

What about condensation between the fiberglass and the metal roof? Doesn't there need to be a vapor barrier?

Here are my pics again. I think people are just suggesting things without knowing my situation.



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Old 01-22-2013, 10:06 AM   #54
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Couple of theories on insulation.
1. Vapor barrier always goes on the warm side of rhe wall. If you live in Idaho the vapor barrier covers the studs and insulation. If you live in California and you have air conditioning then it goes on the outside.
2. It is not the insulation that insulates it us the dead air space in the insulation that insulates.
3. Two theories on wall cavity. A) sealed completly like an envolope. B) on side is vented to take away the humidity / warm or cold air away. It is the warming up during the day and cooling of at night that you get the condensation.

So if those are 6 inch studs then r20 insulation would fill up the wall cavity completly and the vapor barrier would cover it and seal it so there is no air movement.
If those are like 12 inch wood studs then you would want to ventalate with roof vents at the peak and vented soffits.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:22 AM   #55
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I just found out that kraft paper faced fiberglass insulation is a vapor barrier. I didn't know that.

This site has some interesting stats about perm ratings of different materials.

http://www.naima.org/insulation-know...retarders.html
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:17 PM   #56
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Best check with building codes in your area using the paper back insulation. Here in Canada it has not been used in new contruction since the late seventies because of high flame travel. Do you do any welding or grinding or use a torch in your shop ? Or plan on covering up with drywall ?
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:37 PM   #57
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Best check with building codes in your area using the paper back insulation. Here in Canada it has not been used in new contruction since the late seventies because of high flame travel. Do you do any welding or grinding or use a torch in your shop ? Or plan on covering up with drywall ?
Yes to all of those. I'm not going to sheetrock the ceiling. I never considered using the paper covered fiberglass anyway. I'm going to stick with the foam board idea.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:03 PM   #58
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What about condensation between the fiberglass and the metal roof? Doesn't there need to be a vapor barrier?

Here are my pics again. I think people are just suggesting things without knowing my situation.
IIRC, supposed to be a 2" air gap between roof and insulation. There are some extruded foam sheets that act as spacers ready made for 24" of joists as you have.

If it were me, and I have built around 500 homes...., I'd look up insulation contractors in the phone book and have'em come out for an estimate. Get 3 or so, go on professional opinion rather than some wacky anonymous klr riders off adv.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:31 PM   #59
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I will probably use the 2". My plan is to lay it across the 2x6's and use screws with washers to hold it up. It doesn't weigh much so it won't take much to hold it up there. Then I will use the foil tape to seal the seams.
My $.02 is your on the right track with this idea.
If you built your roof construction with a continuous soffit and ridge vent, you would have more than enough ventilation to dry out any condensation that might develop in the air space between the foam board and tin.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:22 PM   #60
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One concern in Idaho is roof loading. Pole buildings are usually designed to Barely meet the snow load. Adding ANY weight to the roof will probably take the load above design, unless a ceiling was included in the original design.

We have a 24x30 pole building that was insulated with R11 vinyl-backed fiberglass and it does seem to help even though it is compressed at each purlin.
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