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Old 01-17-2013, 03:52 PM   #211
Wraith Rider
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Tiered licensing is for sheeple that are too incompetent to take responsibility for their own actions and decisions, IMO
Well, at the age of 16 (A1 -> 15hp) or even 18 (A2 -> 48hp) one - just out of school - might be that incompetent with a high possibility.
On the other hand you're right, why hand out a driving/riding licence to someone incompetent at all.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:14 PM   #212
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Pissed New bikes are fugly

I'm an industrial designer and I have the opinion that basically all new bikes are too ugly to seriously desire. I cant find one modern bike that fits in to my sense of self and my style. Every bike that's not a Harley is covered in acres of wildly styled plastic parts. Guys I know want a bike with a steel tube frame, a visible engine and carbs, and no plastic on it. Maybe the triumph 900 scrambler is close. If manufacturers would Remake old aircooled 500-750 cc bikes with modern reliability and they will sell. To be a biker in America, it's like you have to chose from a small group of predetermined personal identities. An aggressive sport biker with chrome nazi helmet, a tattooed, america-first classic rock cruiser shitkicker, old fart on a goldwing, a yuppie dick on a ducati, or a potbellied adventure rider with a GS, multicolor onesie and huge luggage. Where's the cb750 standard you can just take out for a ride without telling everyone you're some kind of exceptionalist douchebag? That's why I founded a communal garage where my buddies can buy old bikes and make them look really cool. You can't make a 2013 Bike look cool, you just can't. So how am I supposed to drop $8k on something that I hate looking at?
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:17 PM   #213
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Getting back to the "doomed" industry, I don't think it's doomed, but it's definitely changing. It seems like motorcycles originally gained popularity as a low-cost alternative to cars, and as cars got cheaper motorcycling turned more and more into a hobby/sport for enthusiasts, and they got more expensive. In many 2nd and 3rd world cultures 2-wheels are still the primary form of transportation, and even in North America today we see a surge in scooter sales when gas prices spike. Today, when considering true motorcycles (not scooters or larger displacement automatic gearbox crossover machines) they're no longer a low-cost alternative to cars, and to the contrary the upper end of the market, particularly european brands, seem to be what is carrying the market overall. I think the market for 2-wheel vehicles is actually going to get better over the next decade, but most of that growth is going to be in the scooter and crossover segment, not in "real" motorcycles. Hopefully some of the young people who cut their teeth with scooters out of necessity will move on to bigger machines.

Still doesn't change the fact that most kids today are pussies
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:32 PM   #214
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They stopped making them because nobody bought them. I'm not being facetious, that's just a fact. I can't stand the whole "transformer" look of most of today's bikes, but apparently somebody thinks that's what people want.

Guzzi seems to have found their stride with the V7, and I think the new California 1400 is a stunner. Triumph has done a pretty good job of selling traditional-looking bikes. There are a lot of Harley XR1200 owners and fans around here, but they couldn't give them away and pulled the plug on the model. No matter how much market research the manufacturers do, there's still a lot of black magic involved in trying to figure out what pushes people's buttons and makes them buy your bike. Sometimes it's purely accidental, like in the case of the Ducati Monster, their best-selling, and one of the best-selling european motorcycles of all time. A few guys decide to work on their own a few nights a week playing around with a chassis from this bike, motor from that one, and lightning strikes. Motorcycles are emotional, and when you overthink things you can suck that out of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattna View Post
Where's the cb750 standard you can just take out for a ride without telling everyone you're some kind of exceptionalist douchebag? That's why I founded a communal garage where my buddies can buy old bikes and make them look really cool. You can't make a 2013 Bike look cool, you just can't. So how am I supposed to drop $8k on something that I hate looking at?
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:09 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Mattna View Post
If manufacturers would Remake old aircooled 500-750 cc bikes with modern reliability and they will sell.
The W650 shot down that theory... But I do hope you are right.

http://motorcycles.about.com/od/hond...-a-Classic.htm
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:20 PM   #216
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Just like the fuel injection thread..."If they made a Triumph Twin again"...."My old Matchless or Greeves was so superior to todays bikes"....."My Amal Carburetors on my old AJS worked better than fuel injection does today"......I bet you guys wishing for the old days have never ridden a modern bike. Some of you anyway. I work with an old guy that won't use a digital micrometer. It fuckin' reads to 50 millionths. 50 fuckin' millionths, but he's living in the past, like some of you are.

Try one of the new bikes. Ride a Multistrada. Those fuckers pull the front off in 3rd gear like a dirt bike. I found myself in Santa Barbara, when SB Ducati let me loose on one, pulling wheelies across intersections. Just a bitchin' ass bike. Lots of great bikes out there. You guys are in the minority when you want things like they were 50 years ago, it isn't going to happen. Things are very reliable now. You don't have to adjust the points by the side of the road anymore, and I don't miss that shit one bit.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:18 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
You don't have to adjust the points by the side of the road anymore, and I don't miss that shit one bit.
Fucking A

Jetting? Fuck. That.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:08 AM   #218
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@Mattna
Sounds like you are just plain ... old.
Why not get over it that it's no longer the time of ugly round headlights, unergonomic seats, aircooled visible engines and in generel outdated technology like steel tube frames and carburators... and buy a Hornet/CB/NC/XJ/MT/FZ/GSR/Gladius.
None of them fits in one of your hated predetermined personal identities.

Don't get me wrong, I do well understand that you want the retro style you where grown up with, decorated your cave walls with, carved into your school stone tablets, but please don't bullshit about "predetermined personal identities" or "not looking cool" only because something doesn't fit your - not cool at all - nostalgia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post
I can't stand the whole "transformer" look of most of today's bikes, but apparently somebody thinks that's what people want.
I played with transformers as a kid, so maybe loving the style (and the movies) is my nostalgia.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:15 AM   #219
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There is something in what you say about the spirit of the times, Wraith.
But "unergonomic seats" . . . still are found on 99% of modern bikes.

And . . . "ugly round headlights" ??
~ withdraw that particular comment, sir !!
Form follows Function . . . or if it doesn't, then it's one of those passing fads, where high fashion trumps good engineering (like with ultra-low-profile tires on cars).

As the lighting engineers say . . . if God had meant headlights to be other than round, He would have made the circle a different shape.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:21 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post



I played with transformers as a kid, so maybe loving the style (and the movies) is my nostalgia.
I understand that. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:37 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Midnullarbor View Post
As the lighting engineers say . . . if God had meant headlights to be other than round, He would have made the circle a different shape..
Not sure who you talked to, but the Hella guys I was hanging with last month certainly didn't agree!
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:02 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Midnullarbor View Post
.

As the lighting engineers say . . . if God had meant headlights to be other than round, He would have made the circle a different shape.
.
Does a bike need to send out light in a 360 degree cone in front of it, or does it need to send out light a little on the ground, more in a straight line, and a bit to the sides, with more light on the right side than the left?

Some funky winged wedge looking thing would seem to be the best reflector setup for that design goal.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:42 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattna View Post
I'm an industrial designer and I have the opinion that basically all new bikes are too ugly to seriously desire. I cant find one modern bike that fits in to my sense of self and my style. Every bike that's not a Harley is covered in acres of wildly styled plastic parts.

To be a biker in America, it's like you have to chose from a small group of predetermined personal identities. An aggressive sport biker with chrome nazi helmet, a tattooed, america-first classic rock cruiser shitkicker, old fart on a goldwing, a yuppie dick on a ducati, or a potbellied adventure rider with a GS, multicolor onesie and huge luggage.
WTF are you talking about?? The V7 guzzi's and all of the triumph modern-retro thruxton/scrambler/bonnie's add up to a pretty good amount of new bikes that fit the "no plastics, exposed engine, tubular steel frame" bill. Ducati did the same thing a few years ago with their sport classics. Seen Honda's new CB1100 yet? I doubt it. Every major manufacturer has a standard bike as well, ie: SV650, FZ6, CB500, etc. Then theres the more aggresive nakeds like the ducati streetfighters, monsters, hypers. I could go on and on...

I don't even really know why I'm taking time to explain this. It seems like you're too busy making sweeiping generaliztions while hangin with your skinny-jeans hipster commune to stop and actually look around at what's out there. Maybe a little more time riding these newer bikes and a little less time "making bikes look cool" and you'll figure it out.

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:05 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by officerleroy View Post
WTF are you talking about?? The V7 guzzi's and all of the triumph modern-retro thruxton/scrambler/bonnie's add up to a pretty good amount of new bikes that fit the "no plastics, exposed engine, tubular steel frame" bill. Ducati did the same thing a few years ago with their sport classics. Seen Honda's new CB1100 yet? I doubt it. Every major manufacturer has a standard bike as well, ie: SV650, FZ6, CB500, etc. Then theres the more aggresive nakeds like the ducati streetfighters, monsters, hypers. I could go on and on...

I don't even really know why I'm taking time to explain this. It seems like you're too busy making sweeiping generaliztions while hangin with your skinny-jeans hipster commune to stop and actually look around at what's out there. Maybe a little more time riding these newer bikes and a little less time "making bikes look cool" and you'll figure it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattna View Post
I'm an industrial designer and I have the opinion that basically all new bikes are too ugly to seriously desire. I cant find one modern bike that fits in to my sense of self and my style. Every bike that's not a Harley is covered in acres of wildly styled plastic parts. Guys I know want a bike with a steel tube frame, a visible engine and carbs, and no plastic on it. Maybe the triumph 900 scrambler is close. If manufacturers would Remake old aircooled 500-750 cc bikes with modern reliability and they will sell. To be a biker in America, it's like you have to chose from a small group of predetermined personal identities. An aggressive sport biker with chrome nazi helmet, a tattooed, america-first classic rock cruiser shitkicker, old fart on a goldwing, a yuppie dick on a ducati, or a potbellied adventure rider with a GS, multicolor onesie and huge luggage. Where's the cb750 standard you can just take out for a ride without telling everyone you're some kind of exceptionalist douchebag? That's why I founded a communal garage where my buddies can buy old bikes and make them look really cool. You can't make a 2013 Bike look cool, you just can't. So how am I supposed to drop $8k on something that I hate looking at?
You mean like me?? Im a 31 year old gun-toting, America-first, rides-like-a-dick-when-I-commute white male who wears black overpants and a gray jacket, while riding a 650GS. Oh yeah, and Ive got tat's and usually sport a beard that Im told makes me look like either Charles Manson or Grizzly Adams.

My first truck had points and a carburetor. NO I do not miss them!! While I dont mind having a carb'd bike, I love the FI on my Dakar. No muss, no fuss. I just ride it. Sure some think its ugly as hell, but Im very much function over fashion. Dont give a shit what it looks like, because I love the way it looks and thats the only opinion that counts.

The problem with the motorcycle industry these days isnt ugly bikes, or some weird notion of predetermined identities. Its the fact that the economy is in the toilet. Especially for younger people, work is scarce and cost of living has gone way up compared to older generations. We're just at a low point. The industry isnt doomed. This slump cant last forever. Eventually things will get better, people will have more disposable money and you'll see toys being bought again. And yes, here in the U.S. bikes are more or less toys. We dont use them for serious transportation compared to the rest of the world. And yes, I do know that many, including myself, ride daily/commute via bike but compared to our total population, its a very small percentage.

I dont have the numbers, nor know where to find them, of how good or bad its actually doing, the motorcycle industry isnt doomed....not by a long shot.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:42 PM   #225
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That's part of it, too, KG6. Some people are in it strictly for the image. The guys that take a perfectly functioning motorcycle, make it rigid framed, put clip-ons on it, and generally make it less comfortable (and you get an idea how far they actually ride, if they ride it at all), and run worse than it did, strictly for some image they are trying to live out. Same with a lot of the Adventure guys. Gotta have that GS, big aluminum bags, all the little lights and guards, GPS, Spot finder, roll charts, map holders, ADV stickers all over it, and for all you guys that actually do ride the adventure ride, I guess it's kind of a compliment, that these poseurs are trying to appear like you. But a whole industry has popped up, whether ADV, cafe, sport bike, chopper, whatever, many, many, people are in it strictly for the look they want to achieve.
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