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Old 01-18-2013, 04:04 PM   #5896
Ed@Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper View Post
I agree......overall quality has went down on everything. Things in general just aren't made as good as they used to be. And paying more now doesn't always mean better quality.
Its the age of cheap crap. And I think its just going to continue getting worse
Quality will keep going down simply because there are enough buyers out there who can not appreciate quality, value quality, can not differentiate quality, or are simply a member of the "kleenex" mindset who believe use it once, throw it away
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:43 PM   #5897
GlennR
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It's really hard to complain about the lack of quality when we live in a country that doesn't manufacture anything anymore.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:54 PM   #5898
Fishenough
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Share Time!!

Here is a nice trip report on ADV of a ride through Northern Laos on the great value Lifan 200 cross. (though I did break a friends Lifan cross's foot peg whom stopped at my house fresh from picking up his new bike, when I gave the suspension a bounce)..

But sure enjoyed the quotes here on another report of the ride, such as:

Quote:
A little humble Lifan (China made motorcycle 200cc). ***** and his Lifan remind me of Disney movies, the king’s soldiers in the dark forest on a noble quest guided by magical wisps and nymphs. We were the dumb soldiers; ***** was that magical wisps..
Just like seeing all types ride together, and the RideAsia report is nicely honest.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:19 PM   #5899
frog13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
It's really hard to complain about the lack of quality when we live in a country that doesn't manufacture anything anymore.
We do not produce anymore because ,"THEY" (profit mongers), wanted more coin,eventhough they said it would save money to have it produced in China.....it did not...in the long run.Quality is going down,if company's would go back to having pride in their products heritage,the people who build the product etc,etc,....THEN, you would see quality reappear.

The Gov. manufactures debt......................
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #5900
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Somehow we got off topic...
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:54 PM   #5901
skibikemototour
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Thumb I like my WR250R!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
Somehow we got off topic...
The law of comparative advantage- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage could be used to argue that a country with advanced technology may find economic advantage when the low-tech manufacturing goes offshore. Econ 101.

OTOH I like my WR250R! Thrilled at the quality, the engineering, the performance, the reliability, the relative cost. Was there ever a motorcycle made in the US or anywhere to equal it?

I like that a 1/4 liter or smaller moto has safety and efficiency while offering adequate performance for the task. As well, I like it that a 1/4 liter or smaller moto tends to break less, and does not rip up a new knobby in a few days. I like it that it is light enough to throw around or pick up, without a cost or reliability penalty from exotic manufacturing to make it light
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #5902
Sierra Thumper
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Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I think that is true mostly, and why I love my TU250, fantastic quality even though its a budget bike.
The motor even has cam bearings...very rare.
The only problem I ever heard about is speedometer cables breaking from water getting inside.
I have abused mine a lot and it just purrs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skibikemototour View Post
The law of comparative advantage- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage could be used to argue that a country with advanced technology may find economic advantage when the low-tech manufacturing goes offshore. Econ 101.

OTOH I like my WR250R! Thrilled at the quality, the engineering, the performance, the reliability, the relative cost. Was there ever a motorcycle made in the US or anywhere to equal it?

I like that a 1/4 liter or smaller moto has safety and efficiency while offering adequate performance for the task. As well, I like it that a 1/4 liter or smaller moto tends to break less, and does not rip up a new knobby in a few days. I like it that it is light enough to throw around or pick up, without a cost or reliability penalty from exotic manufacturing to make it light
We're lucky, the japanese have always prided themselves on making outstanding performing and quality motorcycles (for the most part lol)....you can't go wrong buying japanese machinery. I've owned almost exclusively japanese equipment over the 37 years of riding (started young ) and 100+ machines I've owned, and never regretted buying any of them
As long as the japanese stick to their motto, and keep building quality stuff, us bikers should be fine.....I just hope this trend that honda's started of having some bikes built in china and thailand doesn't spread.....that would REALLY suck
I don't care how much they ride those chinese and taiwanese workers in those second tier factories, they aren't going to produce the same consistent quality of machinery with the same level of materials
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:44 PM   #5903
Ed@Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper View Post
I don't care how much they ride those chinese and taiwanese workers in those second tier factories, they aren't going to produce the same quality of machinery
I don't believe that. Chinese workers that screw up have an alternative....the government run death camps!
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:46 PM   #5904
Sierra Thumper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
I don't believe that. Chinese workers that screw up have an alternative....the government run death camps!
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:52 PM   #5905
Paebr332
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Any of you whiners actually work in manufacturing? There is still tons of manufacturing in the US.

If you think quality is declining in general you simply do not understand what you are talking about. The level of complexity in most modern manufactured goods means that the individuals component capability is eons ahead of what it was during any mythical "golden age" of manufacturing.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:02 PM   #5906
ThomasVolomitz
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It's only getting better.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:12 PM   #5907
OBryan
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Made a deal with My son who turns 18 soon.. Seems he now would like to get into riding..So happens I have a 06 gz250 that a F250 turned in front of me a few years ago.. I've been kind of tinkering on it a bit but have been to busy riding LOL when I can to really get it fixed up.. GOOD excuse as any and I'm sticking to it... Long story short I'll Help him if he wants to finish fixing it up and it'll be his to ride.. But he does the work I'll just guide while drinking a beer LOL.. So hopefully by early summer there'll be another minimalist on the road.... He gets a bike and WE get something else to do together
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:06 AM   #5908
JerryH
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Overall quality is down. Just go into a Walmart store. Everything in there is junk. Most newer appliances are junk. I know someone with an old Admiral refrigerator that is still working like new after more than 50 years. I tried to buy it but he won't sell it to me. It weighs about half a ton, has sides over 4" thick, rounded corners on top, and actual mechanical locks on the doors. After more than half a century, the door seals are still undamaged. You can no longer buy stuff like that. It IS still possible to make it, but there would be no money in it for the manufacturer. If appliances lasted 50 years, the companies that make them would go out of business. It has gone form a "built to last" world to a "throwaway" world. Instead of companies building things they can have pride in, they build things they can make the most money on, and quality is not where the money is. Most name brand motorcycles are still of decent quality, but they are still designed to be disposable. In most cases, a Japanese bike could be kept going for a long time (I have put over 100,000 miles on 3 of them) IF parts were available. Now the Japanese have pretty much quit selling parts for bikes over 10 years old, and a couple of local dealers will not work on bikes more than 10 years old.

Most mechanics will not work on vintage cars either. And I only drive vintage cars to get away from the emissions and safety crap on newer ones (especially the electronics) I am a mechanic and grew up working on these old cars, but fortunately if I ever need anything done that I can't handle, I know a couple of good vintage car mechanics, and parts are readily available. Sadly, as far as motorcycles go, Harley is about the only brand you can still get vintage parts for, and like the old cars, that is due to a large aftermarket, which Asian vehicles don't seem to have. I'm already having issues getting parts for my '95 Goldwing, which would easily last the rest of my riding life otherwise. High quality (made in USA) no parts.



BTW, anyone have a new 2013 Suzuki DR200S? Seriously thinking about trading one of my scooters for one.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:20 AM   #5909
SAPB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
Have you looked at the india built KTM 390 duke? $$$..probably damn fast.....however, I don't like KTM as a company...or Austria as a country...but that's another story
Off topic for this forum, but she went from a baby Ninja, to an ER-6n. I helped her research, only a slightly higher seating position after lowering/shaving the seat. I offered, and she took me up on it to get the break in miles on the Ninja.. Nice bike, but you've got to wind the piss out of it to get it to go. I like my thumper CRF250L, way better, but it's a different animal altogether.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:20 AM   #5910
GlennR
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[QUOTE=JerryH;20523168]. In most cases, a Japanese bike could be kept going for a long time (I have put over 100,000 miles on 3 of them) IF parts were available. Now the Japanese have pretty much quit selling parts for bikes over 10 years old, and a couple of local dealers will not work on bikes more than 10 years old.

Most mechanics will not work on vintage cars either. And I only drive vintage cars to get away from the emissions and safety crap on newer ones (especially the electronics) I am a mechanic and grew up working on these old cars, but fortunately if I ever need anything done that I can't handle, I know a couple of good vintage car mechanics, and parts are readily available. Sadly, as far as motorcycles go, Harley is about the only brand you can still get vintage parts for, and like the old cars, that is due to a large aftermarket, which Asian vehicles don't seem to have. I'm already having issues getting parts for my '95 Goldwing, which would easily last the rest of my riding life otherwise. High quality (made in USA) no parts.

QUOTE]


Jerry,
I recently read about "3-D Printers" which are now a reality. You can buy a cheap one for $1000 that will produce small intricate plastic objects. Jay Leno has a $30,000 unit that he uses (now) to produce parts for his vintage motorcycles & cars.
The article said these will be a huge gamechanger. China will not be able to underprice what these machines can do. They said while it will be possible for consumers to own lower-end 3-D printers, the fancy ones that can produce larger parts with multiple materials (metal, ceramic, glass, etc) wouldn't be feasible for home use becase of the costs and also the bulk storge of the materials. They said we'll probably be seeing 3-D printshops pop up around the country pretty soon.

So, there is hope for parts to keep our old toys running "forever". "Beam me up a new carb & turn signal, Scotty!"

We seriously are "living in the future".
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