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Old 01-18-2013, 06:09 PM   #91
SRG
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Yooper Bob - When you are of a certain age the 640A still seems to be contemporary bike - hell, I had one till just the other day.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:35 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Yooper_Bob View Post
6 pages, and no one has mentioned the discontinued KING of dual-sports....the KTM 640 Adventure.
Bob - I mentioned it! Well the e model anyway! Lovin my 2000 640. Its the best still-modern-by-most-standards REAL dual sport motorcycle avaliable. The current Japanese offerings are not real dirtbike oriented anymore, but rather set-up and geared for the pavement. It seems most people that own D/S motorcycles around me have them setup further for pavement or their idea of offroad is a few dirt road sections. I grew up on the 'cutting edge of their times' Suzuki TC/TS and the Yamaha DT models and ride one on occasion and would never want to have to ride one more than a few minutes in the woods. My old(er) lol body loves a tall, SUPER suspended, SUPER hp dirtbike thats street legal. The old bikes are absolutely great for nostalga but riding them seriously again??? No thanks
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:35 PM   #93
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I never had or tried a GOOD modern dual sport, so maybe that is why I would love most of those old bikes.
I no longer need to go really fast or prove anything, and had great fun doing just that on a 1969 Daytona.
What a hoot I thought that bike was, on the street or in the dirt.
It took LOTS of work keeping it running right, but was a boat load of fun.
The wife could go on the back for a ride in the country, I could play solo road racer, or blast down dirt roads and trails.
No, it did not do mud holes well, or jumps, but it was just FUN to ride.
I am still looking for something good to replace it with.
More of a light street bike then a dirt bike.
But almost any old 2 stroke dual sport would be fun for legal dirt riding.

Way back when they were new, I had an IT 175 and it was a hoot, light, fast for a 175, great suspension, but mine always broke or had something wear out, on almost every ride.

I suppose the downside of running one now would be the poor range out of a tank of gas, getting parts, and more motor work needed if you put a lot of miles on it.

I am sure I would like a wr250 or klx 250, or the new crf if it was just me or I could have a bunch of bikes, or a Euro brand if I had a lot more money, I even thought an xt225 was great fun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBDRdude View Post
Bob - I mentioned it! Well the e model anyway! Lovin my 2000 640. Its the best still-modern-by-most-standards REAL dual sport motorcycle avaliable. The current Japanese offerings are not real dirtbike oriented anymore, but rather set-up and geared for the pavement. It seems most people that own D/S motorcycles around me have them setup further for pavement or their idea of offroad is a few dirt road sections. I grew up on the 'cutting edge of their times' Suzuki TC/TS and the Yamaha DT models and ride one on occasion and would never want to have to ride one more than a few minutes in the woods. My old(er) lol body loves a tall, SUPER suspended, SUPER hp dirtbike thats street legal. The old bikes are absolutely great for nostalga but riding them seriously again??? No thanks
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:33 PM   #94
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rv90

Hello,

I had a Suzuki rv90 with big fat tires that rocked. Raced MX in early 70s in SoCal and most people who had pit bikes had Honda SL70s and then xr75s. Always one to be a little different and had always rode street also, I bought a RV90. Some times would race 2 classes, 6 motos at Carlsbad or Saddleback, but would always find time to ride pit bikes. One day was riding at Saddleback and went down a step slope with a gully at the bottom. Slowed down and then tried to jump it, NOT!!
Crashed hard and was laying with the bike on top of me with what I thought the exhaust burning my leg. After not being able to get bike off me, the front brake lever with a broken off ball at end had went into my leg. Saw that it had torn through my brand new Torsten Hallman leathers and was in my leg. About 5" further down popped out of my leg. Ouch!! Was done racing for the day.
In 1974 rode that bike in Barstow to Vegas as in 72 and 73 I broke down so I was going to ride a dependable street legal bike and finish. Had a spare 1 gallon canteen with gas as it had tiny tank, also 2 stroke, so crap mileage. Someone crashed hard and had a broken collarbone. I stopped and went back for rescue 3 to help him as they wouldn't be coming for a while. Finally took off again and got lost. Saw a couple of planes flying over the hill, thought they were following the race so went there. It was a group of small planes and had nothing to do with race. Well ran out of gas then used up canteen to get to the freeway. Had to push it a small way and hitched a ride to catch up with group. Still have pics of myself and friend racing around high school track as it was a great flat tracker.
I really like that bike and is maybe the reason I've had 3 TW200s, also a great dual sport.

Always lost.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:58 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
To me, it is time passes and people forget the bad. We are in golden age of dual sports right now. The only real holes I see are the lack of a big bore for the blue team and the red team's refusal to update their 650. Otherwise all the bases are well covered from 250 to 1200 cc. I honestly can't think of any bikes from my past that I want to ride today.

The real hole is in the Japanese market above 250. There are no real quality dual sports other than the DRz400S. Otherwise they're all pretty much 1980s tech. The closest in big bore was the bike I ride - the KLX650C - but no one would pay the cost for the KLX over the lower tech KLR. That is the problem, the riders buying Japanese hit a price block and won't go beyond. The other good all arounder was the XL350R, specifically the 1985 model which had the best general power delivery.

It would be great to see a modified LC MX engine 350-450 in a good dual sport chassis, but I don't think many would be willing to pay for it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:02 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBDRdude View Post
Bob - I mentioned it! Well the e model anyway! Lovin my 2000 640. Its the best still-modern-by-most-standards REAL dual sport motorcycle avaliable. The current Japanese offerings are not real dirtbike oriented anymore, but rather set-up and geared for the pavement. It seems most people that own D/S motorcycles around me have them setup further for pavement or their idea of offroad is a few dirt road sections. I grew up on the 'cutting edge of their times' Suzuki TC/TS and the Yamaha DT models and ride one on occasion and would never want to have to ride one more than a few minutes in the woods. My old(er) lol body loves a tall, SUPER suspended, SUPER hp dirtbike thats street legal. The old bikes are absolutely great for nostalga but riding them seriously again??? No thanks

Problem with many of the European dual sports, possibly excepting the BMW, is the maintenance and reliability. Many dual sport riders don't want the kind of maintenance demand and sometimes the reliability in the long haul. I have 45,000 miles on a Kawasaki with almost no maintenance after replacing the OEM crap cam chain tensioner. Nothing breaking or cracking. True it isn't a great off roader due to weight, but there is a price for that weight and for my size I'd do a 400 if I did real trail riding (aka serious hills, ruts, etc) as opposed to more or less groomed trails and rutted country roads.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:17 AM   #97
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My feeling is that the DP category is so wide, whats out there is always a compromise to begin with. Do you want a plated dirt-bike to link trails together, an "adventure" type bike? Where are you going to ride? woods bike, desert bike, FS roads? If the manufacturers were to come out with a brand new model, 2/3rds of us would never even consider it. On top of that, by definition dual sporters are cheap bastards - instead of buying two bikes, we want one that can do it all - that's why I've been hanging onto my L for damn near 20 years.

That said, it sure would be nice if we aren't going to see brand new machines, to at least get the existing ones get upgraded components; ie the suspension is out there to slap onto the DR-Z and XR-L, so why not?

For the OP - I sure would like to see a new mini-trail that I could ride down to the grocery store on, and also throw in the back of the truck to scoot around on when camping.....
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:13 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by SRG View Post
Yooper Bob - When you are of a certain age the 640A still seems to be contemporary bike - hell, I had one till just the other day.
I still do... selling is not an option.

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Old 01-19-2013, 10:20 AM   #99
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[QUOTE=markk53;20524276]Problem with many of the European dual sports, possibly excepting the BMW, is the maintenance and reliability.

BMW?? You're kidding right? I'm amazed at what regular maintenance is at certain mileage intervals and involves going to the dealer for BMW! Its NOT cheap!

KTMs are VERY reliable. I've owned KTMs along with my Suzukis the past 15 years and always have had to put more into the Suzuki's. Granted the maintenance is less involved, but none of my KTMs have left me stranded and some of my Suzukis have(more than once).

There are different motorcycles for us to choose from at different levels(and fatter wallets) and we now can 'taylor' our ride for ourselves. Dual sport has become a wide term that covers everything from crossing roads on your dirtbike to long distance Adventure touring on a V Strom or Beemer. The OP seemed like he was nostalgic for some of the old iron he missed or some of us had in our past(I'm guility too). Sometimes many of us latch onto a brand or old bike like a friend. (here again, I'm guilty) You know..'I've always had a GMC truck...always ran for me..hated the FORD..nothing but trouble' We have found what works best for us, usually after owning several bikes, forming an opinion about what we ride and in the end you have to choose (old or new, big or small) what you're most comfortable with for your personal type/style of riding. Hey if its two wheels(in most cases) its all good!
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:49 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by SRG View Post
Yooper Bob - When you are of a certain age the 640A still seems to be contemporary bike - hell, I had one till just the other day.

How i understand you





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That was my very first bike

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Old 01-19-2013, 11:15 AM   #101
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[QUOTE=CJBDRdude;20526266]
Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
. The OP seemed like he was nostalgic for some of the old iron he missed or some of us had in our past(I'm guility too). Sometimes many of us latch onto a brand or old bike like a friend. (here again, I'm guilty)
Actually the original post wasn't at all about that, but the thread kind of morphed into a "my old XXXX was awesome" thread. Which is fine, I'm not going to stand between loved ones!

The point I was trying to make in the original post was to wonder why some great bikes, many mentioned here, got dropped instead of improved upon. The DR350 was one example. Why isn't there a 2013 DR350 and how good could it be if it used today's tech instead of the late 80s? But it was simply dropped (if you don't consider the DRZ400 an updated DR350).

While the thread has strayed a bit, it has produced some great pics and stories.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:09 PM   #102
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Butters..I stand corrected! I must say I agree with you on why some models were discontinued, while others were not updated. I also preferred the DR350, which was refined over a decade or so and became a well loved suzuki icon. I don't really dislike the DRZ400, but it is a different 'animal' nonetheless. The DRZ technology is old at this point too. I ride with friends that love the DRZ, but after riding KTMs, I could never go back to riding a Suzuki in the dirt world. KTM in fact does what you're post mentions.. it takes the existing model and improves upon that almost yearly. Though KTM has stopped making some great models too, like the RFS bikes. I kept my 03 rfs..yup 350.. its still an amazing motorcycle that I can depend on. I'm planning on keeping it for a long time..now that new Husaberg 350F????? Hmmmmmmm eye candy.....
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:26 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by CJBDRdude View Post
Butters..I stand corrected! I must say I agree with you on why some models were discontinued, while others were not updated. I also preferred the DR350, which was refined over a decade or so and became a well loved suzuki icon. I don't really dislike the DRZ400, but it is a different 'animal' nonetheless. The DRZ technology is old at this point too. I ride with friends that love the DRZ, but after riding KTMs, I could never go back to riding a Suzuki in the dirt world. KTM in fact does what you're post mentions.. it takes the existing model and improves upon that almost yearly. Though KTM has stopped making some great models too, like the RFS bikes. I kept my 03 rfs..yup 350.. its still an amazing motorcycle that I can depend on. I'm planning on keeping it for a long time..now that new Husaberg 350F????? Hmmmmmmm eye candy.....
I know the RFS engines were easy to do valve adjustments on......are the new style KTM's dual overhead cams that involve all the typical dual cam hassles to adjust valves? If so I'll be looking for an RFS motor myself if I decide to pick up a KTM.....although the notorious needle-bearing cam follower failures in the RFS engines scares me Did they get that corrected in the later RFS engines?
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:53 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
as Kommando said

"The big fear is, Suzuki could really screw it up by changing something that doesn't need to be, or shouldn't be, changed...or that they change it for the worse."

look what Kawasaki did to the "new" KLR
Except for KTM....the rest of the guys seem to think that adding weight every year with more doo-dads, gizmo's, and extra "crap" to glitz up their machines, and make the buyers say "ooh" and "ahh, I need one of those" is evolution. The Terra at 408lbs is WAYYY to heavy to be called a "dirt" bike......street bike is a better term. Same with the 08 and up KLR.

If Honda, Suzuki, or Kawasaki (again) upgrades their 650 line-up it'll be the same thing....bigger, heavier, and more expensive. Look at the new Honda CRF250L....it weighs almost as much as the XR650L and puts out half the power and torque.
The Japanese have it all wrong.....and unfortunatley KTM has it all right, at ridiculous prices and less than Japanese reliability.
I just wish we could get back to good Japanese machinery that did the right thing at the right price. As it is now imo your best bets a nice used KTM at a good price, and just take extremely good care of it maintainence wise, and don't break too many parts, especially plastics, unless you have plenty of room on your credit card
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:04 PM   #105
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I still do... selling is not an option.

That bike sure is purrrty
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