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Old 01-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #256
Navin
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Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
Yeah but Honda has this problem with having to build bikes you can still give your to your kids after you wear it out. In order to have that kind of stamina they do make them heavy. The price point of 5000 US is going to rule out extensive use of alloys. What is that old saying? Light, Fast, Cheap - pick any two.

350lbs. isn't a massive leap to hold a twin 500cc to. I don't think they care about how well their bikes hold up 3,000 miles and 30 years down the road!
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:33 PM   #257
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New Duke 390 has extensive use of alloy, including light wheels & brakes (unsprung weight), and as a thumper weighs 324 lbs. wet. The new Ninja 300R twin doesn't have these advantages and weighs 378 lbs. wet. It would take a pretty high-tech (I want one!) 500 Twin to hold the weight down to 350 lbs. wet.

Another reference point: The 2012 (higher-tech) Duke 690 thumper weighs 352 lbs. wet. I think 385 lbs. would be a better target for a twin, which is still 40 lbs. lighter than my NT650 Hawk GT (425 lbs. wet). Going back to another thread, the Japan-only 400cc super-sports barely make the 385 lb. target.
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Gryphon12 screwed with this post 01-16-2013 at 04:39 PM
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:38 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
New Duke 390 has extensive use of alloy, including light wheels & brakes (unsprung weight), and as a thumper weighs 324 lbs. wet. The new Ninja 300R twin doesn't have these advantages and weighs 378 lbs. wet. It would take a pretty high-tech (I want one!) 500 Twin to hold the weight down to 350 lbs. wet. Another reference point: The 2012 (higher-tech) Duke 690 thumper weighs 352 lbs. wet.

Well, wet weight is +20 lbs most often!

Lets call it 378 like the Ninja 300 and it shouldn't be a Herculean undertaking. I think the Kawi guys use lead in their parts in the cheapo bins!
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:37 PM   #259
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IMS was here last weekend - I'll say one thing, they got the rider triangle perfect on the F and R models. the X is weird like the versys, high bars don't match the somewhat rearset pegs. The packaging and finish are reasonably good. Certainly a lot of bike for the cash.

As for the motor, if it feels like the Ninja 650, it'll work. If it feels like the F800, I'm out. Somewhere in the middle.... I dunno.
Funny. I hope the 500X motor feels like a small F800GS. That 800 parallel twin rotax is a gem of a motor.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:40 PM   #260
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Probably has decent poke around town @30 ft lbs torque, almost twice the ninja300. The appeal to me is- it rides like a Honda, and gets the best mpg.
It sounds like it is whizzing dog. It will benefit from an aftermarket exhaust.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:39 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
New Duke 390 has extensive use of alloy, including light wheels & brakes (unsprung weight), and as a thumper weighs 324 lbs. wet. The new Ninja 300R twin doesn't have these advantages and weighs 378 lbs. wet. It would take a pretty high-tech (I want one!) 500 Twin to hold the weight down to 350 lbs. wet.

Another reference point: The 2012 (higher-tech) Duke 690 thumper weighs 352 lbs. wet. I think 385 lbs. would be a better target for a twin, which is still 40 lbs. lighter than my NT650 Hawk GT (425 lbs. wet). Going back to another thread, the Japan-only 400cc super-sports barely make the 385 lb. target.
What's so much heavier on a road bike like the Duke 390? As an comparison, a DRZ400S only weighs a bit under 320 lbs and it's nearing dinosaur age.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:18 PM   #262
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Well, to start: The frame is designed to handle higher-speed road stresses, not dirt. I don't know all of the details, but street frames are quite a bit heavier than enduro frames (and have real rear subframes and pegs for a passenger - even if you never carry one). Then, street wheels are wider, heavier alloy; the rotors and calipers are heavier, too, to resist fade at highway speed. Gas tanks are metal, electrical systems, batteries, and lighting systems are larger, more sophisticated and add weight.

Lot's of this stuff is mandated by DOT regulations. Overall weights are up quite a bit. KTM 350-EXC-F weighs 255 lbs. wet; Duke 390 weighs 324 lbs. wet. Difference is ~70 lbs.

Many of these same issues apply to the weight differences between an enduro and a dual-sport. For example, lots of folks complain about the weight of the WR250R at 298 lbs. wet, or the WR250X at 302 lbs. wet. (The DRZ falls into this category, with low-tech (e.g. heavier) components.) These dual sports meet all of the DOT regs for street bikes. KTM street-legal enduros meet the minimum regs too, but without the electrical systems and the subframe support. Call them race bikes or call them "dual sport light". It is all a continuum. Pick your desired performance envelope and pony up!
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:20 PM   #263
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It sounds like it is whizzing dog. It will benefit from an aftermarket exhaust.
If it revs freely (like the old CB500) it will be fun, but if it's kinda slow (like a Ninja 250R) it's going to feel laboured.

The Versys I owned spun-up pretty fast, which went a long way to compensating for a relative lack of bhp.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:41 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
Yeah but Honda has this problem with having to build bikes you can still give your to your kids after you wear it out. In order to have that kind of stamina they do make them heavy. The price point of 5000 US is going to rule out extensive use of alloys. What is that old saying? Light, Fast, Cheap - pick any two.
The saying is: fast, cheap, reliable - pick two.

The Honda CB500 is cheap and reliable.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:20 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by RaY YreKa View Post
If it revs freely (like the old CB500) it will be fun, but if it's kinda slow (like a Ninja 250R) it's going to feel laboured.

The Versys I owned spun-up pretty fast, which went a long way to compensating for a relative lack of bhp.
I agree, if it revs freely, that will take care of it.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:35 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
It sounds like it is whizzing dog. It will benefit from an aftermarket exhaust.
It sounds very much like my ninja 650 did, and it should sound like that
since it's the same engine setup. The problem is most aftermarket exhaust
actually make it sound worse in my opinion, thin and "screamy".

I only liked the Akrapovic and Arrow on the 650R, and only up to about
half the revs, then, again, it goes bad.

If you don't like the way this thing sounds look at the NC700, they've got
a completely different note and sound very deep stock.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:18 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
It sounds like it is whizzing dog. It will benefit from an aftermarket exhaust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
It sounds very much like my ninja 650 did, and it should sound like that
since it's the same engine setup. The problem is most aftermarket exhaust
actually make it sound worse in my opinion, thin and "screamy".

I only liked the Akrapovic and Arrow on the 650R, and only up to about
half the revs, then, again, it goes bad.

If you don't like the way this thing sounds look at the NC700, they've got
a completely different note and sound very deep stock.
Sounds really mean with this pipe on it! >:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZR2kXLELFc&hd=1"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZR2kXLELFc&hd=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZR2kXLELFc&hd=1
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:02 PM   #268
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You're kidding right....?
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:53 PM   #269
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You're kidding right....?

That was horrid!
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:15 PM   #270
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In order to get a real sense of what it might sound like like you'd have to be onboard rowing through the gears but at idle and unloaded throttle this sounds very, very annoying. Only good for the aftermarket. stock Ninja 300 sounds much better.
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