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Old 01-21-2013, 01:56 PM   #61
Falconx84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khager View Post
It's actually not a bad idea. I think the ordinances and regulations might be a bigger hurdle than raising the money.

I am not sure who regulates them city? county? state? May not even be addressed, since no one has ever tried it, and there are a lot of people that will argue that in states like TX, where the issue (lane-splitting) is not addressed it is neither legal nor illegal, so how can they say no to putting it on a billboard?
I can't imagine a local ordinance saying you can't to it. Just has to be worded like a PSA... just like the "Watch for impaired drivers" type signs. They aren't endorsing driving impaired, just that statistically speaking there will be a certain number who are.

As long as it doesn't announce that its legal to split/filter and just says "watch for filtering," you should be good to go.

EDIT: on privately owned billboards/ property. I don't think we can get away with manufacturing our own street signs
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:50 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
I think its going to take a MC being seen as basic transportation instead of a weekend toy to get things moving along.
That's what I meant when I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Gas prices at European levels, putting more people on two wheels, then realizing there are great HUGE gaps of pavement they could be using.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BanjoBoy View Post
Butt now the pig gubment 'n CHP have finally figured out that it's better fer everybody on the road, 'n safer, so they're promoting it. http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html
Finally? That page has been there, one form or another, for over a decade.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:09 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Finally? That page has been there, one form or another, for over a decade.
Not to mention the CHP are one of the main reasons we have lane splitting in CA - so they could do it on their air cooled bikes and not overheat and die in traffic.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:57 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by BanjoBoy View Post
Whyz it gotta be 'bout rednecks? Sum us rednecks are open minded, 'n encourage lane split'in.

It seems to be a stigma that "they" have chosen to impose upon themselves. I have had "them" do it to me. Luckily I know how to lane split so I did it again at the next light and they went away. They can be angry all they'd like as long as they do it way back there.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:18 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khager View Post
It's actually not a bad idea. I think the ordinances and regulations might be a bigger hurdle than raising the money.

I am not sure who regulates them city? county? state?
it would be different in every state

the state generally regulates signs on state highways, but there may be local regulation that supercedes

here in NH, county govt is weak, but most towns regulate signs , every municipality has there own regulations. and actual construction of a sign can be as easy as built it, or get a building permit first, proceedures on getting a sign building permit can be anything from a simple appplication and fee to a 6 month public hearing process depending on where you are

in other words, even more complicated than just going to every state legislature with lobbying effortsto begin with
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:21 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Falconx84 View Post
I can't imagine a local ordinance saying you can't to it.
you haven't imagined many local ordinances have you

I make a living getting people thru the process of obtaining land use permits (sign permits are just one of the many things)
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:16 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
+1

I think its going to take a MC being seen as basic transportation instead of a weekend toy to get things moving along.

As it is, the weekend warrior-type thinking would get in our way. Remind me to tell y'all the story of the Hardley bobber riding guy one day.

This!

That is my "secret" strategy. Here in NYC, about three years ago a handful of riders including myself started a motorcycle advocacy group. (NYMSTF.org, FYI.) Our general feeling was that we were tired of being "represented" by "MRO"-type groups -- Motorcycle "RIGHTS" Organizations which generally do nothing except whine about helmet laws and any proposal which might prohibit their asinine, ear-splitting straight pipes.

Our basic premise was this: We believe that there is a silent MAJORITY of riders who just like to ride. We're adults, professionals, fathers & mothers, and the only reason most non-riders don't realize we're in the majority is because we DON'T have loud pipes, and we're NOT popping wheelies on the way home from work.

So, my "secret" strategy is this: I think that if I can make main-stream motorcycling SO popular and convenient that everybody's mother is doing it, then the element which does it to be "rebellious" will lose interest. I call it the Chinpokomon strategy, BTW.



It's gonna take a little while, I think.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:31 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
So, my "secret" strategy is this: I think that if I can make main-stream motorcycling SO popular and convenient that everybody's mother is doing it, then the element which does it to be "rebellious" will lose interest. I call it the Chinpokomon strategy, BTW.
.
.
.
It's gonna take a little while, I think.
Yes and yes.

Being recognized as useful transportation is key. But the reality is that motorcycling is a pain in the patootie once one puts on overpants, jacket, earplugs, helmet, and gloves at every stop. Even if you simplify that to helmet and gloves, the SUV can run a loop of errands including any kind of lumber, pets, kids, and a new flat-screen TV that would be a bit more troublesome on a motorcycle.

It's not impossible, but the car is more convenient and the pickup or SUV are more convenient than the car.

Motorcycling is for those who enjoy it. We will adapt to the inconvenience and accept the risks.

The result is that we will be a minority until change is imposed upon us by the cost of gas or other forces.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:47 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Grinnin View Post
Being recognized as useful transportation is key. But the reality is that motorcycling is a pain in the patootie once one puts on overpants, jacket, earplugs, helmet, and gloves at every stop. Even if you simplify that to helmet and gloves, the SUV can run a loop of errands including any kind of lumber, pets, kids, and a new flat-screen TV that would be a bit more troublesome on a motorcycle.

I dunno about you, but I don't frequently need to get lumber or a flat screen TV.

I have a car, and I have a bike. In average, for the past few years, I've put about 13,000 miles / year on the bike. On average, I put about 8,300 on the car.

I don't think I'm the norm, HOWEVER a few thoughts:
  • I live in the Northeast -- where today it is currently a balmy 20.8F.
  • Nonetheless, I commute in on a bike, every day unless there's ice/snow on the ground. (Or, like today when I had to get the car inspected. )
  • On weekends, I do about 75% of my errands on the bike.
  • I live in an urban area (NYC), so whatever time it takes to get my gear on is MUCH MORE than offset by the amount of time it would take to find PARKING for the car.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:48 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinnin View Post
Yes and yes.

Being recognized as useful transportation is key. But the reality is that motorcycling is a pain in the patootie once one puts on overpants, jacket, earplugs, helmet, and gloves at every stop. Even if you simplify that to helmet and gloves, the SUV can run a loop of errands including any kind of lumber, pets, kids, and a new flat-screen TV that would be a bit more troublesome on a motorcycle.

It's not impossible, but the car is more convenient and the pickup or SUV are more convenient than the car.

Motorcycling is for those who enjoy it. We will adapt to the inconvenience and accept the risks.

The result is that we will be a minority until change is imposed upon us by the cost of gas or other forces.
Motorcycles will always be the minority, of course, but don't discount how convenient motorcycles (and scooters) are in large, crowded cities. Motorcycles here can use the HOV lane, which is a significant benefit if you've ever ridden any of Atlanta's freeways at rush hour (or hell, anytime really). Plus it's MUCH easier to find a place to park (and scooters can just be chained to sign posts or parking meters on the sidewalk).

Lifestyles are changing. The baby boomer era of big yards way out in the burbs is coming to an end. Nowadays a lot more people want to live in urban areas rather than in spread-out suburbs. I think in the next 20 years there's going to be a HUGE growth in the number of people using electric scooters and motorcycles to get around town.

I see this as the best of both worlds. Electric bikes will be incredibly cheap to own/operate and great for commuting and short trips, while conventional bikes will still be used for touring and sport riding.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #71
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I think filtering and splitting should be legal, I'm not arguing against it but would like to point out a few real problems.

Infrastructure,
We allow vehicles to be wider than in most countries, 102". Many states have narrower lanes, while California typically uses 14' lanes, many states in the east half of the country use 12' lanes, sometimes in the east coast it can be as little as 10'.

Image,
Most non riders think of pirates and squids when they think of motorcycles, to them we are just a bunch of immature twats playing with toys. Noise, high beams, road blocking parades, high speed antics, stunting,. We are a tiny minority with a huge image issue.................and most of the negativity is accurate.........why do anything for us?

Our own worst enemy,
How many riders claim they do it all the time even though its illegal, as if thousands of people don't see it and don't know its illegal.
If it were to be made legal, how long would it take before the public regretted it?


Unfortunately, I think it would be easier to get the non riding public to initially accept splitting and filtering, than it would be to keep some riders from abusing it.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:23 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
I dunno about you, but I don't frequently need to get lumber or a flat screen TV.

That's what Zipcar is for.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #73
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I would like to stand corrected. Both Wiseblood and jfurf make good points about how 2-wheels may be more convenient in places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
I dunno about you, but I don't frequently need to get lumber or a flat screen TV.

I have a car, and I have a bike. In average, for the past few years, I've put about 13,000 miles / year on the bike. On average, I put about 8,300 on the car.
.
.
.
  • I live in an urban area (NYC), so whatever time it takes to get my gear on is MUCH MORE than offset by the amount of time it would take to find PARKING for the car.
I put over 19,000 on 3 motorcycles in 2012 and 3,360 on my car. And I DO frequently need lumber, but that and the TV were just examples. I ride in spite of the inconvenience.

Change of tactic: Is it possible to convince traffic engineers to convince legislators that filtering is beneficial? Bypass the populace entirely?
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:54 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by jfurf View Post
Lifestyles are changing. The baby boomer era of big yards way out in the burbs is coming to an end. Nowadays a lot more people want to live in urban areas rather than in spread-out suburbs.
Do you really believe that?
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:06 PM   #75
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Do you really believe that?
I do not. At least not here in Texas. D/FW, Houston, Austin, San Antonio. They just keep spreading out. Even my town of 100K has doubled in population and probably size in the past 15 years.
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