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Old 01-23-2013, 09:46 AM   #26926
fullmonte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
"Waste of money" is a subjective judgment, as I'm sure you know. Some people would say the same of trading my perfectly serviceable HT for a high priced FS, but I'm awfully glad I did.
I think they may be referring to the law of diminishing returns when it comes to your high dollar component upgrade. A grand for a couple of seconds a lap is a negligible improvement. However, I wholeheartedly agree with your second statement, because I have had the same experience. I reached the limits of my HT and it's limited fork travel, which caused me to crash a lot and left me sore after most rides. Front end washout and truckish handling was constantly dogging me on that bike. The Pivot FS, on the other hand, has increased my average speeds from the low 9s to the low 11s on a 10 mile single track loop. It makes me want to ride every day because it's comfy and more fun to hustle it around at speed. The joy is back, but I still would not have paid full boat retail (5+ grand)for it. Luckily, I scored it off a guy like you who kept it in mint condition with some tasteful upgrades.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:54 AM   #26927
Tallbastid
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Right, I left my old hard tail for a full squish that cost $2k last winter and never regretted it for a minute. But to pay $1k for new cogs to lose a couple seconds on some online leader board that holds no real importance seems crazy to me. Less smiles per dollar you could say. But again, your money.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:06 AM   #26928
YakSpout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Odd that you should say that. The racers I'm acquainted with seem to upgrade components on a monthly basis, sometimes buying a whole new bike at the start of each racing season.
I ride with some guys like that. (Chase a few of them, actually ) You can race and still be a Fred.

Monthly component upgrades? Sounds more like chasing the shiny, but what do I know. I don't race. I just try to ride enough to keep my IPA intake neutral to my waistline.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:14 AM   #26929
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmonte View Post
I think they may be referring to the law of diminishing returns when it comes to your high dollar component upgrade.
Yes, totally agree with you on that score.

Quote:
A grand for a couple of seconds a lap is a negligible improvement. However, I wholeheartedly agree with your second statement, because I have had the same experience. I reached the limits of my HT and it's limited fork travel, which caused me to crash a lot and left me sore after most rides. Front end washout and truckish handling was constantly dogging me on that bike. The Pivot FS, on the other hand, has increased my average speeds from the low 9s to the low 11s on a 10 mile single track loop. It makes me want to ride every day because it's comfy and more fun to hustle it around at speed. The joy is back, but I still would not have paid full boat retail (5+ grand)for it. Luckily, I scored it off a guy like you who kept it in mint condition with some tasteful upgrades.
See, contrary to what most people here might assume, I'm actually quite miserly. Months ago, I balked at spending money for light weight rims, having convinced myself that the performance improvement (whatever it was) couldn't possibly justify getting rid of a set of perfectly good rims and spending an extra $500 for new ones. Luckily, I was able to get a set on loan for two weeks so I could see for myself. The difference in performance was HUGE. Not only was I able to increase my overall speed on the trails according to Strava, but also the amount of time I could ride without feeling fatigued. That why I can't take someone seriously when they make statements like, "It's %100 the rider." It's a ridiculous claim that's instantly refuted every time I ride.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:25 AM   #26930
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moodfart View Post
Right, I left my old hard tail for a full squish that cost $2k last winter and never regretted it for a minute. But to pay $1k for new cogs to lose a couple seconds on some online leader board that holds no real importance seems crazy to me. Less smiles per dollar you could say. But again, your money.
No, you're making a false assumption. The reason I want to swap out the drivetrain is because the stock 3x10 has given me constant problems, and it's gotten worse now that I'm doing very steep climbs. I've had the bike inspected at two shops, and both times I've been told that these problems are inherent to the way 3x10's are designed. Since both my chain and sprockets are due for replacement soon any way, this is the appropriate time for an upgrade.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:38 AM   #26931
Tallbastid
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I still don't agree with you, but what do you want me to say - 'You win!'?

If you didnt want to hear opinions, you shouldn't have posted it up here.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:47 AM   #26932
RxZ
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As an overweight, bicycling noob I can see both sides to this. Take me for example. I could stand to lose 40 lbs (It was 50, but thanks to running and cycling 10 of that is gone so far ) How many of you have a mountain bike that weighs 40 pounds? Obviously, the first thing that will help me is to lose the weight.

However, even at my weight and lack of athleticism I can tell that the rear of my Trek bounces around way too much to be safe in corners at much faster speeds than I already go. Full suspension would help, maybe something simple like letting some air out of the rear tire would do the trick. But alas, a good friend of mine that rides semi-professionally, or at least used to, just picked up a new Canondale Lefty which is a hard tail. He is now faster on it than he was his old full suspension.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:11 AM   #26933
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moodfart View Post
I still don't agree with you, but what do you want me to say - 'You win!'?

If you didnt want to hear opinions, you shouldn't have posted it up here.
There are opinions built on false assumptions and personal biases, and there are opinions which are rationally defensible. I don't consider them to be of equal value.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #26934
k7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
No, you're making a false assumption. The reason I want to swap out the drivetrain is because the stock 3x10 has given me constant problems, and it's gotten worse now that I'm doing very steep climbs. I've had the bike inspected at two shops, and both times I've been told that these problems are inherent to the way 3x10's are designed. Since both my chain and sprockets are due for replacement soon any way, this is the appropriate time for an upgrade.
Yeah right. Barely a month ago, you posted this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Several of my riding buddies are trying to convince me I need one of these for my 29er. I'll admit it looks cool and all, but what would be the practical benefit to me? The entire system reportedly retails for $1,500, which is hardly pocket money.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-xx...peed-2013.html

I can see some sense in buying it if I were building a 29er from scratch, but I've already got a perfectly good set of gears, cranks, chain, derailleur, etc. Why replace all that hardware?
Admit it - you're turning into a shopper.

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Old 01-23-2013, 11:46 AM   #26935
Tallbastid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
There are opinions built on false assumptions and personal biases, and there are opinions which are rationally defensible. I don't consider them to be of equal value.

You must be a blast at parties.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #26936
Aurelius
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Originally Posted by k7 View Post
Yeah right. Barely a month ago, you posted this.
Yep, barely a month ago the price was $500 higher, and the stock drivetrain was fine for the kind of trails I was riding. Times change.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:23 PM   #26937
Gummee!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmonte View Post
Luckily, I scored it off a guy like you who kept it in mint condition with some tasteful upgrades.
That's where I get most of my parts. I tend to buy D/A or Red slightly used for less than wholesale and call it good.

Triathletes are especially prone to 'upgrade-itis' for some reason.

On another note: man! is it farging chilly round here! Just got in from 2:30 on the bike and the high was appx 30deg F. Now, just last week, it was over 60 round here so the temp drop is certainly noticeable.

AKDuc's gonna be around soon to tell me about the negative eleventy billion he's been riding in and I'm gonna look like a wuss (again).

M
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:35 PM   #26938
mud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Odd that you should say that. The racers I'm acquainted with seem to upgrade components on a monthly basis, sometimes buying a whole new bike at the start of each racing season.
I know a few like the above. BUT, most RACERS I know ride their shit until it is dead. The only time they replace something before it is dead is if they think it will make them DNF. Money spent on gear is money out of their pockets. These guys are also nuts.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:51 PM   #26939
AKDuc
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Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
I wonder if you might detail your winter layering scheme, please?
Sure, it's really quite simple for my daily 4mi commute to work. I'm very fortunate to live right next a bike trail that's groomed for skiing. That's mainly why I got a fat tire bike since it sinks less than a skate skier and doesn't mess up the grooming. I ride a studded tire mt. bike if it's icy.

Non-riders often have a hard time understanding that I find it warmer and more comfy bicycling than going out to a cold car that's just getting warm by the time I get to work. That point also probably doesn't matter to many since auto/remote starts are increasing in popularity these days.

I'll group my clothing assortment by temperature from head to toe starting with 20f and above. I use a cover on my helmet which helps to keep some heat in and rain/snow out. It's also hi-viz and reflective. I use various thicknesses of balaclavas with my main one being a Smartwool model. Usually just a thin uncoated windbreaker over my work clothes, meaning cotton tee and cotton western shirt and jeans w/o underwear. Since my commute is so short I stay with my clipless pedals tho I really do believe the cleats are quite a heat sink. I usually just wear a low top pair of mt bike shoes but for colder weather I'd recommend different pedals and footwear. At this temp I'm usually just wearing gloves or lobster mitts.

Form 20f to 0f I'll wear a thicker and longer gore-tex bicycling rain jacket on top and my Lake winter bike boots on my feet and mittens on my hands. Even with the Lakes my feet start to get chilly at the end of 4mi.

Below 0f I'll add a sweater and a pair of pair of padded bicycle shorts under my jeans and a pair of shell pants over and liner gloves under the mittens. I also wear a thicker balaclava and maybe a pair of longjohns. All pretty simple, eh?

I'm happy to say that I've only driven the cage to work 4 times in 5yrs. Being able to ride a bike trail 3 of the 4mi is a big part of that.

Ride on and warmest regards from way up north, Mark H.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:07 PM   #26940
Aurelius
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Originally Posted by AKDuc View Post
Non-riders often have a hard time understanding that I find it warmer and more comfy bicycling than going out to a cold car that's just getting warm by the time I get to work. That point also probably doesn't matter to many since auto/remote starts are increasing in popularity these days.
Isn't the extreme cold damaging to a bicycle's rubber tires and inner tubes? I would think they'd freeze solid and crack.
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Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.
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