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Old 01-21-2013, 05:02 AM   #46
PFFOG
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$6 to treat 40 gallons of fuel, vs having to pull the carbs off the F3 track bike and clean them, no contest. I will forgo a 6 pack of beer if there is any chance that it works.


And as someone that has seen carbs get gummed up in 4 months, on BRAND NEW bikes, I know the problem is real.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:00 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoTiredRiders View Post
This whole conspiracy theory won't be hard to test, six clear small bottle. An ounce of fuel in each one treated and untreated with various products. Let sit six months as if in a carb. We all know carb gas goes bad in a month or so vs tank gas which can last years, so we will test the small amounts for smell and discoloration, or lack thereof. And lastly its burn ability. Better term for that I'm sure. I will let the nieces and nephews handle this for their annual science fair project. Someone smart at school, maybe their science teacher, should be able to figure out a way to document the burn rate and stuff like that. (Hopefully safely). Sure we could just do the hillbilly way: that smells like varnish pause puke, go to next one. The amount of this stabilizer products I am using I'd like to know if its doing anything. If betting money I'd say I'm all in for it is doing something to prevent octane loss etc...
2TR
I like this idea. You would fill the jars to the exact same level in each jar, and mark the level. Then, drill a 1/16" hole in each lid (to simulate float bowl venting), screw the lids on and watch the levels and look for water separation at the bottom of the jars. Whatever mix has the highest level with the least (or no) separation wins. Right?
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by HapHazard View Post
I like this idea. You would fill the jars to the exact same level in each jar, and mark the level. Then, drill a 1/16" hole in each lid (to simulate float bowl venting), screw the lids on and watch the levels and look for water separation at the bottom of the jars. Whatever mix has the highest level with the least (or no) separation wins. Right?
Won't tell ya shit. The problem occurs in the TINY idle circuit passages and pilot jets passages where the TINY amount of fuel evaporates, the TINY amount of residue left behind is sufficient to plug the TINY passages. Or, in the case of FI bikes, to a much lesser extent, the injector tip gets residue. As for volatility, good luck with that, remember Richard Pryor
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:56 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This statement got me doing some research, and everything I found shows that both are indeed Naphtha!!!

Naphtha (CAS # 64742-47-8)

Star Tron (CAS#64742-47-7) has 0.5% "Proprietary Organic Compounds" in addition to the Naphtha

Sta-bil (CAS # 64742-47-8) turns out to be Deodorized Kerosene

So no Sta-bil & Star tron are NOT the same!
From Wiki

Though Coleman fuel has an octane rating of 50 to 55 and a flammability similar to gasoline, it has none of the additives found in modern gasoline and cannot be used as a substitute for gasoline, kerosene or diesel fuel in modern engines.[4] Its high combustion temperature and lack of octane boosting additives like tetraethyllead will destroy engine valves[citation needed], and its low octane rating would produce knocking.[4]


I looked up Naphtha (CAS # 64742-47-8) and found this. They didn't have a -7

Petroleum Distillates
Identifications

CAS Number: 64742-47-8
Synonyms/Related:
Aliphatic Hydrocarbon
Dispersol
Distillate Fuel Oils, Light
Hydrotreated Light Petroleum Distillates
light Petrolium Distillate
Low Odor Paraffinic Solvent
Mineral spirts
Odorless Base Oil
Petroleum Distillates
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:17 PM   #50
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As the owner of a small engine repair shop with over 25 years experience, I will tell you not to use fuel additives. We have been mandated 10% ethanol fuel where I live and work. Another few years and maybe 15% and I will be retired in the bahamas with all the money made from fuel system repairs. Yep, ethanol is the greatest thing to happen to me.
(I use startron-but what do i know?)
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:04 AM   #51
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I use fuel additive in the bikes when storing,and fill the tanks completely full. In the spring,I just drain the tank and run the fuel half and half with fresh fuel,in the lawn mower.. Since we mow a lot,it is soon burned up. I would rather risk a cheap mower engine to the old fuel than a nice motorcycle engine,but that's just me,so do what you want.

I inherited an old small engine stored for 10 years with Sta-bil, and there was no rotten gas smell. I could not believe that it started on the second pull,but instead of running the old stuff through the engine,I put fresh gas in there and used it that way. Used the old gas to burn a brush pile.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:35 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by HapHazard View Post
I like this idea. You would fill the jars to the exact same level in each jar, and mark the level. Then, drill a 1/16" hole in each lid (to simulate float bowl venting), screw the lids on and watch the levels and look for water separation at the bottom of the jars. Whatever mix has the highest level with the least (or no) separation wins. Right?
The so called "test" is posted on the mfg's website using beakers if you want to save time & see the results w/o any fuss. Not taking a position just saying it's there to view.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:44 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Minisquatch View Post
As the owner of a small engine repair shop with over 25 years experience, I will tell you not to use fuel additives. We have been mandated 10% ethanol fuel where I live and work. Another few years and maybe 15% and I will be retired in the bahamas with all the money made from fuel system repairs. Yep, ethanol is the greatest thing to happen to me.
(I use startron-but what do i know?)
Hey "one wife", whats a good solution for storing fuel in my Kohler Command Pro sawmill engine? I've tried red Stabil & still had to drain "old fuel"before use. This most recent time the plastic bodies OEM pulse fuel pump has a split end on it. Does the 10% fuel split the plastic or just a "plastic problem"? The fuel filters seem to clog after a few months storage. I have a shed roof over the engine. Maybe a small electric fuel pump instead?
Star tron will help me store fuel in the engines tank for several months w/o problems?
FWIW, why not retire some place not so crowded as the Bahamas...
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:08 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
The so called "test" is posted on the mfg's website using beakers if you want to save time & see the results w/o any fuss. Not taking a position just saying it's there to view.
Like I am going to trust a test on a magic elixir manufacturers web site any more than I trust the penis enlargement and breast enhancement website tests and testimonials that mostly appear in my spam directory.

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:59 PM   #55
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Little fact for Concours since he is pissed at me. Save your money on Sta-bil and drop some quality 2 stroke oil in all of your gas operated vehicles. It acts like fogging oil to protect internal engine surfaces, and most 2 stroke oils contain anti-oxidants which slow the fuel oxidization down just like... wait for it.... fuel stabilizer! Not only that but you can buy it for $10 a gallon or less! You can also use 2 stroke oil in your gas as a lead substitute, double bonus!

So now that we have concluded this little talk, use what you have available because there are no guarantees anything will save you from having problems.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:58 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
Hey "one wife", whats a good solution for storing fuel in my Kohler Command Pro sawmill engine? I've tried red Stabil & still had to drain "old fuel"before use. This most recent time the plastic bodies OEM pulse fuel pump has a split end on it. Does the 10% fuel split the plastic or just a "plastic problem"? The fuel filters seem to clog after a few months storage. I have a shed roof over the engine. Maybe a small electric fuel pump instead?
Star tron will help me store fuel in the engines tank for several months w/o problems?
FWIW, why not retire some place not so crowded as the Bahamas...
Maybe Belize-the Macafee place may be for sale soon!

FWIW, the ethanol actually cleans the crud from the fuel tank, thats why the filters are cloggging.
My standby generator has a auxillary tank filled with SEF storage fuel made by VP racing. The carb and fuel line are ran dry and then I switch it over to the storage fuel. The plastic fuel pumps are kind of cheap to begin with and the fuel doesn't help. I use startron in my riding mower and have not had any problems with the plastic fuel pump (it is the original pump from 1984). But, I do keep a spare on hand because a lot of my customers have had problems with them while doing the same thing as me.
If you use a electic pump make sure to get a pressure regulator and set it to about .5 to 1 lb of pressure. The needle and seat in your carb are designed for gravity feed or very low pressure.
The best thing you can do for your sawmill is start it once a month and let it run for a while. This will keep the fuel mixed up and the passages in the carb from developing varnish.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:51 PM   #57
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"and most 2 stroke oils contain anti-oxidants which slow the fuel oxidization down just like... wait for it.... fuel stabilizer! "

Not so much... the only exception is the little 2 oz bottles sold at the power equipment store for chain saw/weed wacker homeowner use, they are marked as including fuel stabilizer.
The Amsoil Dominator and Interceptor I have been burning for 10 years in 3 sleds plus all the power equipment has no such claim to stabilize fuel. Not the Castrol Synthetic and dino before that, either.
I wholeheartedly agree about the oil coating the innards... I do it on all my four-stroke bikes, power equipment. Coats the inside of the tank as well.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:47 PM   #58
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^There are a few oils in larger sizes that claim to have a fuel stabilizer:

Husky:
http://www.vminnovations.com/Product...l-6-4-Oz-.html

Olympic(?):
http://www.amazon.com/OLYMPIC-Master.../dp/B002SAO64G

Craftsman:
http://www.osh.com/eng/product/craft...FQ-e4AodhzYA-A

And the one with the coolest name - Maxpower:
http://www.amazon.com/Maxpower-33701.../dp/B005MAECGG
"You don't snuggle with Max Power! You strap yourself in and feel the G's! "

No reviews on how good the stabilizer is, but it is convenient and might help, especially the saw or weedwacker you forgot to winterize.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:06 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by HapHazard View Post
^There are a few oils in larger sizes that claim to have a fuel stabilizer:

Husky:
http://www.vminnovations.com/Product...l-6-4-Oz-.html

Olympic(?):
http://www.amazon.com/OLYMPIC-Master.../dp/B002SAO64G

Craftsman:
http://www.osh.com/eng/product/craft...FQ-e4AodhzYA-A

And the one with the coolest name - Maxpower:
http://www.amazon.com/Maxpower-33701.../dp/B005MAECGG
"You don't snuggle with Max Power! You strap yourself in and feel the G's! "

No reviews on how good the stabilizer is, but it is convenient and might help, especially the saw or weedwacker you forgot to winterize.
I guess you got me there... 6 and 16 oz. bottles I stand corrected and informed.
Cases of gallons get burned here, with a case of quarts for "take-a-longs" http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...r-2-cycle-oil/ http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...r-2-cycle-oil/

For the 2-1/2 gallon can of chainsaw gas, I always add stabilizer because it may sit for MONTHS in the equipment. All depends how little yard work I can do.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:09 PM   #60
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startron

Sold this stuff for a while, Then took some old fuel we pulled out of a tank and double dosed it to see if anything happened. We checked it every month to see if any change nothing in a year and a half, save your money. If you want fuel storage buy av gas 100LL it will last atleast 2 yrs and I have been told by pilots as long as 5 yrs. We just got a station to carry ethanol free 89 oct best stuff for everyday use. Stay away from ethanol it just a get rich scheme by the DC clowns and friends.
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