ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-23-2013, 02:15 PM   #76
dwoodward
Beastly Adventurer
 
dwoodward's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet, Napa Valley North
Oddometer: 4,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Our own worst enemy,
How many riders claim they do it all the time even though its illegal, as if thousands of people don't see it and don't know its illegal.
How many drivers that see a rider lane-split past a) know it's illegal and b) are mad because they wish they could do it?

Quote:
Unfortunately, I think it would be easier to get the non riding public to initially accept splitting and filtering, than it would be to keep some riders from abusing it.
Because right now there are two levels of self-selection to get to lane-splitting: First, take the extra step to learn how to ride; then take the extra step to twitch half a lane one way or the other and keep going when traffic backs up.

Having already self-selected (twice) as a risk taker, it's easy to do it again and get into the adrenaline rush from doing it fast.

Go to where it's crowded, and scooters outnumber cars about 100:1, and you don't see it the way you do here.

When riding is more an accepted lifestyle instead of a risky pastime, it'll be easier for lanesplitting to get accepted.
dwoodward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 02:19 PM   #77
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
When riding is more an accepted lifestyle instead of a risky pastime, it'll be easier for lanesplitting to get accepted.
I predict the advancing glaciers will cover North America again, before that happens.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 03:37 PM   #78
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Having already self-selected (twice) as a risk taker, it's easy to do it again and get into the adrenaline rush from doing it fast.
In my case, unless I *really* effed up, there was no adrenalin. Just another day of riding in traffic.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 04:01 PM   #79
Ginger Beard
I have no soul
 
Ginger Beard's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Sunny Northern Cuba (aka: South Florida)
Oddometer: 6,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
I think filtering and splitting should be legal, I'm not arguing against it but would like to point out a few real problems.

Infrastructure,
We allow vehicles to be wider than in most countries, 102". Many states have narrower lanes, while California typically uses 14' lanes, many states in the east half of the country use 12' lanes, sometimes in the east coast it can be as little as 10'.

Image,
Most non riders think of pirates and squids when they think of motorcycles, to them we are just a bunch of immature twats playing with toys. Noise, high beams, road blocking parades, high speed antics, stunting,. We are a tiny minority with a huge image issue.................and most of the negativity is accurate.........why do anything for us?

Our own worst enemy,
How many riders claim they do it all the time even though its illegal, as if thousands of people don't see it and don't know its illegal.
If it were to be made legal, how long would it take before the public regretted it?


Unfortunately, I think it would be easier to get the non riding public to initially accept splitting and filtering, than it would be to keep some riders from abusing it.

Sounds like it's pretty bad up there in WA. Most riders here are just regular people that use an mc for transportation and ride pretty darn respectfully.

With regards to people lane splitting/filtering illegally I agree with them doing it. When legality stands in the way of safety I see no need to obey the law. It's far easier to deal with a court than a coroner. I understand that some people may become angry with riders doing this but it tends to be people that are either ignorant or driven simply by emotion and ego. Neither group is worth consideration.
__________________
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." ~Edgar Allen Poe~
My HD Scram-ster build
Help Save a Pit-Bull
Ginger Beard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 08:38 AM   #80
Mgbgt89
Beastly Adventurer
 
Mgbgt89's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Akron, Ohio
Oddometer: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Beard View Post

With regards to people lane splitting/filtering illegally I agree with them doing it. When legality stands in the way of safety I see no need to obey the law. It's far easier to deal with a court than a coroner. I understand that some people may become angry with riders doing this but it tends to be people that are either ignorant or driven simply by emotion and ego. Neither group is worth consideration.
Well put.
Mgbgt89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 12:45 PM   #81
dwoodward
Beastly Adventurer
 
dwoodward's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet, Napa Valley North
Oddometer: 4,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
In my case, unless I *really* effed up, there was no adrenalin. Just another day of riding in traffic.
So you're the type that's doing 90 lanesplitting traffic doing 50?
dwoodward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 01:20 PM   #82
dwoodward
Beastly Adventurer
 
dwoodward's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific NorthWet, Napa Valley North
Oddometer: 4,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
I predict the advancing glaciers will cover North America again, before that happens.
Nah. Standing by my statement: When gas hits Euro price levels, a 2-wheel 70mpg vehicle that costs $5,000 will start making more sense to people than the 4-wheel 14mpg one. (Or a 4-wheel, $30K, 45mpg hybrid)

Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
I think filtering and splitting should be legal, I'm not arguing against it but would like to point out a few real problems.

Infrastructure,
We allow vehicles to be wider than in most countries, 102". Many states have narrower lanes, while California typically uses 14' lanes, many states in the east half of the country use 12' lanes, sometimes in the east coast it can be as little as 10'.
I suspect, somewhere, a Brit is laughing at you.

Maybe the excessively wide lanes ar why people feel like they need to lane split at 80 mph, and cage drivers are so fucking sloppy- because they can be.

Take two standard cars- not your 102" wide beast, but a couple Camrys, let's say- about six feet wide. Center them in adjacent 10' wide lanes. That leaves four feet between them- room for a GoldWing, just. 12' wide lanes, you have a six foot wide gap- piloting a GL1800 through that should be ridiculously easy. 14' wide lanes? You can lanesplit a friggin' trike through that gap- there's more GAP than you have car.
dwoodward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 05:46 PM   #83
Gummee!
That's MR. Toothless
 
Gummee!'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: NoVA for now...
Oddometer: 27,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
So you're the type that's doing 90 lanesplitting traffic doing 50?


Statute of limitations ain't up yet. I'm not sayin nuthin.

Having said that, I was riding an R1150RT, so its not like I could get all wound up. Bike was too wide. I DID put on City Lids tho.

M
__________________
I'm a cyclist that rides motos, not a moto rider that rides bicycles.
Gummee! is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 05:54 PM   #84
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
When gas hits Euro price levels,
That will never happen. USA fuel prices will never equal Euro fuel prices.
__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 07:16 PM   #85
PhilB
Beastly Adventurer
 
PhilB's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: New Hampshire
Oddometer: 1,327
I and some of my friends will be trying to put this forward at some point in NH, although it's not at the top of our list of things that need to be fixed. I do miss the lanesplitting of CA (not to mention the 12-month riding season), but even for me, there are a lot of bigger problems to tackle first.

PhilB
__________________
1993 Ducati M900 Monster "Patina" (230,000 miles, so far) -- 1995 Ducati M900 (wife's bike) -- 1972 Honda CB450 (daughter's bike) -- 1979 Vespa P200 (daughter's scoot) -- 1967 Alfa Romeo GT Jr. (1300cc) -- 1964 Vespa GS160 (160cc 2-stroke) -- 1962 Maicoletta scooter (275cc 2-stroke) -- 1960 Heinkel Tourist 103A1 scooter "Elroy" (175cc 4-stroke)
PhilB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 02:30 AM   #86
Ceri JC
UK GSer
 
Ceri JC's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: All over, usually Wales or England
Oddometer: 2,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Having already self-selected (twice) as a risk taker, it's easy to do it again and get into the adrenaline rush from doing it fast.

Go to where it's crowded, and scooters outnumber cars about 100:1, and you don't see it the way you do here.

When riding is more an accepted lifestyle instead of a risky pastime, it'll be easier for lanesplitting to get accepted.
A very accurate post. At the moment, in a lot of the states, lane splitting is illegal. Consequently, the sort of people who engage in it are (very generally speaking) ones who are prepared to ride illegally or antisocially. Loud pipes, speeding, not stopping when they clip cars etc. are all statistically more likely "per encounter with someone filtering" than if all motorcyclists filtered.

The idiom, "I might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" applies here. If you're going to get in trouble for filtering, why not speed at the same time? If anything, your speeding will make it less likely someone will clock your plate and report you. True, this is balanced to some extent by self-preservation, but this is less of a factor in those who ride illegally and in a thrill-seeking manner, than a legitimate 'commuter'.

In the UK, the reverse is true and there's an added incentive to filter at legal(ish) speeds. As the filtering itself is legal, speeding is crossing the line into illegal behaviour. Perhaps even greater a control is the factor that it also increases the likelihood of blame being attributed to you in a collision (the faster you are going, relative to the speed of the traffic, the more likely the courts are to blame you, as opposed to the cager who change lanes without looking, into your path). If I am filtering safely, at 5mph past stationary traffic and a car suddenly opens its door, or starts moving across the divide between lanes without indicating, it will almost certainly be considered his fault. If I am nailing it through the gap at 50 in a 30, it'll almost certainly be considered solely my responsibility. This encourages moderation, even where self-preservation alone won't control behaviour.

So, most car drivers interactions here, where it's legal, are non-events. They barely notice most of us and generally, cars don't get upset by us doing it. In the states, only the hooligans do it, so interactions with the cagers tend to be poor, hence the cagers continue to oppose it. Bit of a Catch-22, isn't it? As I mentioned earlier in this thread, a lot of otherwise legal riders, starting doing it reasonably and considerately*, en masse, might be the answer.

*albeit technically illegally.
__________________
I like my bike because I can overtake 4x4s down farm tracks with a week's worth of shopping on the back.
Ceri JC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 08:08 AM   #87
Human Ills
Useful Idiom
 
Human Ills's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: South (Dog help me) Bay
Oddometer: 22,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferMutt View Post
By that I mean, what would it take to make it legal, and more importantly, accepted?
Intelligent citizens.
Human Ills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 08:50 AM   #88
windmill
Beastly Adventurer
 
windmill's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Kent, Washington State
Oddometer: 4,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Nah. Standing by my statement: When gas hits Euro price levels, a 2-wheel 70mpg vehicle that costs $5,000 will start making more sense to people than the 4-wheel 14mpg one. (Or a 4-wheel, $30K, 45mpg hybrid)

I suspect, somewhere, a Brit is laughing at you.

Maybe the excessively wide lanes ar why people feel like they need to lane split at 80 mph, and cage drivers are so fucking sloppy- because they can be.

Take two standard cars- not your 102" wide beast, but a couple Camrys, let's say- about six feet wide. Center them in adjacent 10' wide lanes. That leaves four feet between them- room for a GoldWing, just. 12' wide lanes, you have a six foot wide gap- piloting a GL1800 through that should be ridiculously easy. 14' wide lanes? You can lanesplit a friggin' trike through that gap- there's more GAP than you have car.
Like I said, I'm all for it,

It's not that hard or risky, where drivers expect it, and the riders use some common scene. I was just pointing out the obsticals as seen by highway engineers and the general public. Being a seasonal riding area, some of the summer weekend warriors can be pretty bad.

IMO, people who think splitting and filtering make riding more dangerous or safer just need to work on their riding and roadcraft skills. Its a convenience and an option to escape a bad situation, nothing more nothing less.
__________________
"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

windmill screwed with this post 01-25-2013 at 06:56 PM
windmill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 08:53 AM   #89
Mgbgt89
Beastly Adventurer
 
Mgbgt89's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Akron, Ohio
Oddometer: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
I suspect, somewhere, a Brit is laughing at you.

Maybe the excessively wide lanes ar why people feel like they need to lane split at 80 mph, and cage drivers are so fucking sloppy- because they can be.

Take two standard cars- not your 102" wide beast, but a couple Camrys, let's say- about six feet wide. Center them in adjacent 10' wide lanes. That leaves four feet between them- room for a GoldWing, just. 12' wide lanes, you have a six foot wide gap- piloting a GL1800 through that should be ridiculously easy. 14' wide lanes? You can lanesplit a friggin' trike through that gap- there's more GAP than you have car.
I remember watching some clips of a guy commuting on an R1 through downtown London. There were places he would reach up to fold his mirrors in to get through gaps.

Around here, even if one car is on the line, there is STILL enough room to filter. I've had people come over to block me, the car next to them moves thinking the idiot is merging into them.
Mgbgt89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 02:41 PM   #90
Falconx84
Lurker
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Oddometer: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
you haven't imagined many local ordinances have you

I make a living getting people thru the process of obtaining land use permits (sign permits are just one of the many things)
Apparently not.

I was thinking along the lines of renting billboard space that says "watch for motorcycles filtering" I can't see where that would be illegal.

Admittedly, I'm out in the country with no zoning laws so we can pretty much do as we like.
__________________
V-Strom DL1000k7
Falconx84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014