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Old 01-25-2013, 06:34 AM   #1201
640 Armageddon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godwinmt View Post
Good call on the adjustability!...completely forgot about that drawing it up. The lights as it sits are adjustable with the 3 bolts/springs holding them on like most OEM's use. I'll work on it a bit tonight and break it up so there is some adjustment between the base w/lights and dash, or if i'm feeling ambitious break it up into another smaller section. More work on the front end and more bolted joints to fret (fret -> aluminum oxide ->loss of clamp load + fatigue cracks), but it should make a better product and help minimize the size of the raw material needed to get it going.
Do not get carried out with the calculations, 3mm AL plate with dampeners everywhere and nordlocks will survive forever, Designs fail due to vibrations mainly because there are not enough dampeners. Even poor designs can survive if you use proper dampeners. I know that making the tower from lots of parts increases the probability of failure but then again it is easier to change a small bracket that was intentionally designed to fail (more like Paul's plastic shear bolts) or to provide adjustability than having to change the whole Tower Either way, that is evolution. You design something and you see what needs to be changed. When I designed these two towers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AavtnGfcS4c

It was not possible to know all about functionality. Now, I know what needs to be done in order to attach them, bolt them, adjust them etc so I can improve the design... In the above towers every single angle is adjustable. I wanted to go with everything and start removing degrees of freedom if need be. Now I know exactly how many of them I need...
Keep the sharp corners to a minimum and put radii everywhere of you can and do remember that the top plate and the two plates that you have underneath will not match perfectly due to sheet metal bending not being perfect. I think that the weld does not need to be continuous, If you want to go to the extremes you will predict where it will fail due to dynamic loading and make it possible to fix it on site using mechanical connection

Looking forward to seeing the next steps
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:24 AM   #1202
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Originally Posted by jesusgatos View Post
Is certainly possible to have the best of both worlds, and it has been done. Try to find some images of the old Baja XR650's with dual 8" racelights. They were frame-mounted and tied into the steering. We're working on adapting that idea to smaller LED lights now.
You are talking about Team Greens KX 500 they raced in Baja.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:30 AM   #1203
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Originally Posted by Baja Dad View Post
You are talking about Team Greens KX 500 they raced in Baja.
Are we talking about this thing ?



Holy mother of God
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:34 AM   #1204
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
Are we talking about this thing ?



Holy mother of God

yes sir!!! that is the beast!!!
I loved riding that bike.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:42 AM   #1205
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Originally Posted by Baja Dad View Post
yes sir!!! that is the beast!!!
I loved riding that bike.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Riding ?! even looking at it feels weird
Imagine to come across this thing at night ... Someone will go home blind
I mean, if you look the right light closely you can either use it as a weapon or a frying pan
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:49 AM   #1206
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
Riding ?! even looking at it feels weird
Imagine to come across this thing at night ... Someone will go home blind
I mean, if you look the right light closely you can either use it as a weapon or a frying pan
I still have the set of PIAA 12" lights that I used to win my class in the 1992 Baja 1000.
they are SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRIGHT !!!!! the Roosters think it's morning
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:52 AM   #1207
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Originally Posted by Baja Dad View Post
I still have the set of PIAA 12" lights that I used to win my class in the 1992 Baja 1000.
they are SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRIGHT !!!!! the Roosters think it's morning
How the hell were these lights powered ? Given that the bike is two stroke I don't think the electrical output would be enough to cope with these lights. Different alternator or a completely separate system ?
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:06 AM   #1208
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
How the hell were these lights powered ? Given that the bike is two stroke I don't think the electrical output would be enough to cope with these lights. Different alternator or a completely separate system ?
KMC Japan made a system for it.
I did not ask I just rode the bike!
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:03 AM   #1209
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Dual Lights...

The rigid mount + hinge + link arm does little about making the bars feel lights (the energy that is spent is accelerating the mass back and forth, that does not change with a hinge mounted light setup). My understanding is the hinge mount was designed to take the weight of the steering head bearings and help prevent fork damage in a crash (the link is designed to yield).

Godwinmt - If you stand a lot when you are riding you might find that the roadbook and the rest are at a little too steep of an angle. That looks like a really nice design. Well done.

I love the helmet mounted lights, but they are terrible in the dust. They are great for pointing into the corners.

Don't get me wrong, I love rigid mounted lights, but they require a lot more hardware to get them mounted. The fork mounted setups are a nice compromise.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:56 AM   #1210
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The fork mounts are simple, but if you are riding fast desert stuff the frame mounted lights are more often pointed in the correct direction. If you consider setting up for and going through a highspeed turn your handlebars are not pointed were you are looking. With the bike pitched out, the beam is pointed further into the corner.

I have slot of experience with both and much prefer the frame mounts.

The articulating light mount that BD sells is made by Foes Fab.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:20 AM   #1211
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Since;
a. I haven't posted here for a while
b. dakar is finished
c. I have a new (2nd hand) ktm 640 adv
d. have time while away with family,
here is my current idea involving 30mm thick HDPE plate link (Green) to the existing frame mount. There is a lot of avaliable adjustment (khaki side plates) and since I don't have to worry about all the parts needed for a dakar or equivalent so with the use of HDPE that is easy to mod and design in the shed and I believe would be able to be cut and trimed with a router, hence heres an idea.





Since from what I have found HDPE is about 3 times lighter per volume than alloy the overall weight would change that much. As per the attached videos a few pages back the material is pretty strong so I figure ~ 30mm would be up to what I need. The lights are advmonster ones (as thats what I have already) running a dimmer for low beam. Hopefully I wouldn't have any legal issues as in don't get pinged for it, if so the design will change. The orange part is to mount the existing ktm speedo/tacho which already has the inc/dec odo which is fine for what I want. Hopefully I'll be able to create some roadbooks using the new program that is being developed (pretty close from the info on the thread) and then go out and get lost!!!!!!

Oh, and for the fairing hopefully within not to much time I'll be able to get hold of a copy of the mk2 JVO centre piece hence the light/mount design. I quite like there design as it allows easily for a clear screen which solves some of the issues I figure with buffeting as I can run the screen higher without losing vision which was an issue with my last one on my old DL.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:23 PM   #1212
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Paul, makes sense re plastic fairing if you're doing them in numbers
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:30 PM   #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tileman View Post

It may be easier/cheaper/lighter to split the HDPE up into 2 pieces say 7-8mm thick, and then bolt them to the outsides of the factory brackets. Adding in some standoffs throughout will help keep eveyrthing rigid/aligned, and the 2 smaller pieces should offer a bit more torsional rigidity than the single large piece.

Would you be better off for your adjustments at all by slotting the hole closest to the instruments on the mount in a circular manner? It might let you keep the relative positions the same while fine-tuning the viewing angles.

Definitely looks easy to produce with what's available though! I'm a huge fan of the ADVMonster LEDs.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:40 PM   #1214
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Originally Posted by godwinmt View Post
It may be easier/cheaper/lighter to split the HDPE up into 2 pieces say 7-8mm thick, and then bolt them to the outsides of the factory brackets. Adding in some standoffs throughout will help keep eveyrthing rigid/aligned, and the 2 smaller pieces should offer a bit more torsional rigidity than the single large piece.

Would you be better off for your adjustments at all by slotting the hole closest to the instruments on the mount in a circular manner? It might let you keep the relative positions the same while fine-tuning the viewing angles.

Definitely looks easy to produce with what's available though! I'm a huge fan of the ADVMonster LEDs.
I split last time I made one of these to be honest it really frustrated me. It just adds something else to work with eg. every time I'd want to drill a hole or something it would involve both pieces in most cases. I also think one piece would have just as much rigidity. Having said that the 10mm Delrin I have used before was well stiff enough I thought, so a 30mm piece would be in reality I think an overkill. Its just the existing frame mount is 28.5mm from what I can gather so 30mm is a nice round figure. Quite often here I OZ I have found 10mm steps with metal or equiv stock is quite common.

The instrument mounts actually have holes drilled at the non-istrument end that are the same distance from the other so I can change the angle of the mounts (make the angle greater or narrower) and also adjust the angle of the roadbook or instrument seperately. In the drawing I haven't yet included the adjuster (rod ends, both LHD/RHD) to fine tune and give extra rigidity.

My thought also involves a crash, or specifically the rider getting thrown foward. I think it was mention some posts back about using plastic shear bolts. My thoughts with the HDPE instrument mounts is that with a shear bolt included the mount would rotate foward in the event of such a crash. This point was made by someone in regards to Jonahs setup at the 2012 dakar. It was pointed out it was lower than others of which some thought had been put into a accident. Please don't take this comment as gospel as I think I read it somewhere here. Since there are a few designs coming through that are making use of polymers etc then thoughts in regards to stiffness etc are being discussed more.

2012
http://pilbara.smugmug.com/Motorcycl...ar%20009-M.jpg

2011 I think (correct me if wrong)
http://www.cycleworld.com/wp-content...aha_wr450r.jpg

The other thing witrh HPDE it is pretty easy to build in some kind of shear section. I'm not going to try and figure this one out as I don't have the knowledge or programs to be able to run the math but I think its a lot easier than alloy.

In the end HDPE is easy to use in my shed and alloy isn't. I'd love to have access to some machinery that could pump out parts but even for the people that have it I'd assume they have other jobs to do so its something that gets done when the can. (still looking for that big pot of money)

Since you mention the monster LED's do you think they could replace a standard headlamp? Not a dirt bike lamp but something like found on a DL or 990 or something? I have a older model of the LED's and I was think of getting one of the 60's for the high beam.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:14 PM   #1215
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
Are we talking about this thing ? Holy mother of God
I wish a saw a picture of this rider's wife ... Pamela Anderson kind of ...

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