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Old 01-25-2013, 11:06 PM   #16
Wraith Rider
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Everything with a steering damper might have an adventage in the deer case. Mass and speed/accelertion do help as well in staying upright. Sounds like a + for sports bikes and heav tourers again.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:05 AM   #17
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I can tell you this: riding a dual sport in the city is much easier than a sportbike. You can see better. The power delivery is more appropriate. The pot holes don't break your wheels.

I think the only thing handier than a dual sport in the city is a scooter with 16 inch wheels.

I like my sportbike, but only for looking at.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Everything with a steering damper might have an adventage in the deer case.
That's an interesting point. In addition to deer, these probably give an advantage in hitting other critters, dogs etc., chunks of debris in the road such as rocks, etc. Thoughts?
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:02 AM   #19
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I dun had me a KLR650, 'n I'd say it wuz way mor dangerous ta ride than mah FJ1200s, FZ1, FJR1300, or FZ6. That big pig didn't stop or turn, and all the weight wuz up high. I crashed it 3 times in 4 months 'n 8,200 mi.
Fer me sport'in bikez iz much safer.
Quote:
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I love it when sportbike riders complain about road debris/gravel. Dualsport riders aim for that stuff for fun.
This FZ6 rider don't complain 'bout a little dirt or gravel.



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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
The 650 Dual Sports are certainly easier to keep under a 100mph.
Good point.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:23 AM   #20
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Lighter, slower, more visible, trained rider with some brain matter between their ears = safer. Speed kills. I don't really buy into the more power is safer thing, unless you ride on really really congested freeways where lane positioning is even more critical (if you ae a safety nut you shouldn't be there anyways) or you have some really sudden on ramps. Even a 250 has the juice to accelerate at average car speed.

Also, I was a skeptic, but ABS makes a big difference in preventing low/hi sides according to statistics. So that all kind of points to something like a higher end 650cc bike that has ABS (not sure if they make anything smaller with it) some bright headlights, and a tall stance (easier to be seen). Maybe a VStrom or 650GS?
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:35 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by mikem9 View Post
Pros:

Easier to be seen

I disagree. Most of the thumper dual sports under 650cc are very skinny motorcycles without much substance. Most of them have no fairings, and many don't have windshields. From a cager's perspective, they are extremely hard to see from the front or back -- while driving I've thought a guy on a DRZ was riding a mountain bike once from several hundred yards back (no helmet either, so that didn't clue me in). Every time I go riding with my friend and he is on his XT, it's like a two dimensional bike -- easy to see from the side, but front or rear, it vanishes. Kind of scary.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:59 AM   #22
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In the city, I think the dualsport has a better advantage at finding a way out of situations. At highway speeds, the vibrations and buffeting are distracting on smaller bikes.

Double H screwed with this post 01-26-2013 at 10:33 AM
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:38 AM   #23
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Makes no difference at all

I'll be killed just as badly on my GL1800 950 pound Goldwing as I will on my 650 KLR or my vintage 350f Honda. I suppose there's SOME minor difference in that the GL1800 has more power and better brakes etc., but a left-turner or bimbo on her cellphone ramming me from behind at a light will kill the shit out of me no matter what I'm on. I really don't consider the bike I'm on a factor at all when street riding (OK, if I'm on my CT90 I know that's a powerless brakeless shitbox for modern roadway travel, but I don't ride it in city conditions. It's only for gravel roads and very rural pavement where it's rare to see more than a few cars).
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:01 PM   #24
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There is quite a bit of difference between the handling and braking abilities of different bikes even within the same catagory, (klr650 vs drz400s, xr650l, etc) and the same in the other sport, touring, cruiser catagories as well, any bike that stops sooner, turns quicker, better power to weight ratio, etc. is going to increase the ability to avoid or reduce trouble in some situations, no way of knowing for sure unless you know the exact particulars of the peril(s) waiting for you. One advantage of the better handling dual sport bikes, when on road riding if the trouble is in front of you and gives limited time for reaction/avoidance as is so often the case, there can often be larger escape route(s) due to the ability to leave the road after slowing some and navigate whatever ditch, gravel, farmers field, curb, etc. awaits. Of course not all roads or situations present anything that you would want to hit on any bike, but many do and an xr650l for example can briefly handle some moderatly rough terrain at 40 mph that no street bike would want to see. There of course are going to be other situations that could occur that dual sport bikes will always be worse at, so each riders exact situation, roads most often traveled, comfort with speed, vision, reaction time, etc. will usually be greater than the difference between the bikes. As many others have pointed out here, nothing takes the place of defensive driving. There are many, many riders that have ridden tens of thousands of miles on all of these bikes without trouble, and also others that have crashed every one of these same bikes, there are great differences in the bikes but even so it usually comes down to the rider. Have fun and ride sane.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundy View Post
Speed kills.
Speed doesn't kill, instantly becoming stationary is what gets you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundy View Post
Even a 250 has the juice to accelerate at average car speed.
What means it can NOT out-accelerate an average car. It's common sense that being slightly faster than surrounding traffic and being able to get out of a situation in several ways - having the choice to brake OR accelerate - is safer.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:27 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mikem9 View Post
That's an interesting point. In addition to deer, these probably give an advantage in hitting other critters, dogs etc., chunks of debris in the road such as rocks, etc. Thoughts?
Certainly helps with Kangaroos. DL 650 1, Deer 1.

I aimed to be on empty road after the impact, off the brakes at the last second , got bounced into the air, smears of blood, hair and mud on the bike but no damage. I'm pretty sure a sports bike would have fared badly there, smaller wheels, less suspension travel - and likely travelling a lot faster in the first place.

Debris, no contest, the wide bars, suspension travel and steering lock make hitting even gravel in corners mostly survivable. As does hitting it at slower speed in the first place

I think that's the big win for DS bikes, even more for scooters, when shit happens, it happens at far lower speeds. That means on average, less damage.

Pete
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #27
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I'd place less focus on what how the bike is safer (more visible, maneuverable, whatever) and more focus on what it says about the rider that they choose to be riding that bike.

Cruiser riders say sportbikes are more dangerous- sport bike riders say cruiser riders are more dangerous. Oregon 2012 stats say they're BOTH over-represented in crash numbers. Under represented are dual sports (indiscriminate of size) and touring bikes.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRG View Post
I love it when sportbike riders complain about road debris/gravel. Dualsport riders aim for that stuff for fun.
I actually did that today.

I don't know that dualsports are safer. Some PEOPLE are probably safer on dualsports than they would be on some other bikes. It also depends on how your dualsport is set up and if you're used to it. I think a lot of dualsports tend to be more forgiving of noob mistakes in being ham-fisted with throttle, brakes, and steering inputs. They'll also roll right over a lot of crap that would destroy some bikes. My DR took a 4-5' deep ditch at 50MPH once, for example.

Put good brakes on your dualsport. Keep it in good repair. Put good suspension on it. Ride appropriate to the tires you have on. Make sure your bike has enough power for the roads you're riding on.

Ride with your head in the ride.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:23 AM   #29
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I used to ride a POS '89 KLR650. I replaced it with a 2004 Wee Strom a few months ago. My insurance actually went down.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:59 AM   #30
Aj Mick
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Safer on a dual sport bike..... What a lot of nonsense.

Different bikes are optimised to different situations, with "dual-sport" bikes being the all rounders. They are compromised in just about every way.

Safety is not about the bike, but about riders being aware of their surroundings, and riding within limitations of the bike they are using.
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