The Long Range Precision Shooting Thread

[doc_ricketts]

I am pretty satisfied with my two Savage .308s. Long distance shooting is my game and reloading is where the fun begins.

[doc_ricketts]

Did some more testing of the Savage BVSS action and original barrel in a Bell and Carlson Tactical stock. This setup and the Savage 10 really like the OAL at 2.857 and nothing else. The fluted Savage barrel in the BVSS/Bell and Carlson loves to have the action screws real tight (>50 in lb) and likes H4895, but today I tested some RL-15 (168 grain Hornady BTHP). Both the H4895 and RL-15 were loaded at 39.5 grains RL-15 works about as well as H4895 in the steady cool temps today, but time will tell.

[One Less Harley]

Originally Posted by doc_ricketts

Did some more testing of the Savage BVSS action and original barrel in a Bell and Carlson Tactical stock. This setup and the Savage 10 really like the OAL at 2.857 and nothing else. The fluted Savage barrel in the BVSS/Bell and Carlson loves to have the action screws real tight (>50 in lb) and likes H4895, but today I tested some RL-15 (168 grain Hornady BTHP). Both the H4895 and RL-15 were loaded at 39.5 grains RL-15 works about as well as H4895 in the steady cool temps today, but time will tell.

groups mean nothing without the distance mentioned, was this 10 yards or 3,000????

[HONKR]

Originally Posted by doc_ricketts

Did some more testing of the Savage BVSS action and original barrel in a Bell and Carlson Tactical stock. This setup and the Savage 10 really like the OAL at 2.857 and nothing else. The fluted Savage barrel in the BVSS/Bell and Carlson loves to have the action screws real tight (>50 in lb) and likes H4895, but today I tested some RL-15 (168 grain Hornady BTHP). Both the H4895 and RL-15 were loaded at 39.5 grains RL-15 works about as well as H4895 in the steady cool temps today, but time will tell.

That's a 100 yard benchrest group target, and by the look of it the op has a nice shooting rifle.
Those loads should put you around 2450 fps, which is a good place to be for short range precision work in a 308.

[doc_ricketts]

Originally Posted by HONKR

That's a 100 yard benchrest group target, and by the look of it the op has a nice shooting rifle.
Those loads should put you around 2450 fps, which is a good place to be for short range precision work in a 308.

Duh, yeah those 3 shot groups were at 100 yds. Both Savages will do about the same MOA at 200 yds or even slightly better. The velocities are as you state and pretty much the same with the same grains of H4895 or RL-15. Impact points were just about right on with either powder, which was a pleasant surprise. The one hole group ismostly about me finally gettting the trigger pull steady. I have recently taken the Accutrigger pieces out of the rifles and always put the safety on for each bolt closing to accomodate the .5 lb trigger pulls. At least we got some conversation going on this deadthread.

[Manuel Garcia O'Kely]

I am considering a new rifle - my .30-'06 just kicks too much for more than a box per trip to the range. I've read this entire thread and think that the Stevens 12BVSS looks pretty good - wish it was not stainless, but I think that a .308 would be a lot less of a beating for me.

Question - I've never done reloading, but am I correct in thinking that the .30-30, .30-06 and the .308 are all the same size bullet? That would be mighty convenient since I've got a Marlin 336 as well.

[Signal]

Originally Posted by Manuel Garcia O'Kely

I am considering a new rifle - my .30-'06 just kicks too much for more than a box per trip to the range. I've read this entire thread and think that the Stevens 12BVSS looks pretty good - wish it was not stainless, but I think that a .308 would be a lot less of a beating for me.

Question - I've never done reloading, but am I correct in thinking that the .30-30, .30-06 and the .308 are all the same size bullet? That would be mighty convenient since I've got a Marlin 336 as well.

Bullet sizes will overlap
My thoughts are 308 brass is easy (usually) to find- less wear on the case (perhaps better life) and has a wide range of powders to play with- I really can feel less recoil (small guy) I'd go with a 308


The stevens or savage typically are outstanding rifles for the cost. The accutriggers are worth the upgrade cost.

[Andyinhilo]

Originally Posted by Manuel Garcia O'Kely

I am considering a new rifle - my .30-'06 just kicks too much for more than a box per trip to the range. I've read this entire thread and think that the Stevens 12BVSS looks pretty good - wish it was not stainless, but I think that a .308 would be a lot less of a beating for me.

Question - I've never done reloading, but am I correct in thinking that the .30-30, .30-06 and the .308 are all the same size bullet? That would be mighty convenient since I've got a Marlin 336 as well.

A .308 will kick a bit less than a .30-06, but in a gun as heavy as a 12BVSS it won't kick too much. A lot depends on the gun and stock design. I have an M-1 Garand in .30-06 and an M1-A in .308 that are both about 2-3 lbs lighter than my Savage 112BT(In black Stainless) in .308, yet the Savage feels like it kicks more. I feel that this is mainly due to the gas operation of the semi auto rifles.

You are correct in your thinking that all the calibers you mention use .308 bullets. You should not load pointed bullets in the .30-30, unless you are careful to load and shoot them with nor more in the magazine than one round. The exception to this is SOME Hornady bullets with plastic tips that are designed for tubular magazines.The bullet tip can impact the primer on the round ahead of it and cause the round to fire. You can use the flat or round nose .30-30 bullets in a .30-06 or .308, but you lose the ballistic efficiency of the pointed bullet. You also need to get a bullet with a cannelure or crimping groove to use in a tubular magazine for a good crimp to eliminate bullet setback under spring pressure and recoil.

[Manuel Garcia O'Kely]

Originally Posted by Andyinhilo

A .308 will kick a bit less than a .30-06, but in a gun as heavy as a 12BVSS it won't kick too much. A lot depends on the gun and stock design. I have an M-1 Garand in .30-06 and an M1-A in .308 that are both about 2-3 lbs lighter than my Savage 112BT(In black Stainless) in .308, yet the Savage feels like it kicks more. I feel that this is mainly due to the gas operation of the semi auto rifles.

You are correct in your thinking that all the calibers you mention use .308 bullets. You should not load pointed bullets in the .30-30, unless you are careful to load and shoot them with nor more in the magazine than one round. The exception to this is SOME Hornady bullets with plastic tips that are designed for tubular magazines.The bullet tip can impact the primer on the round ahead of it and cause the round to fire. You can use the flat or round nose .30-30 bullets in a .30-06 or .308, but you lose the ballistic efficiency of the pointed bullet. You also need to get a bullet with a cannelure or crimping groove to use in a tubular magazine for a good crimp to eliminate bullet setback under spring pressure and recoil.

Thanks. I read the Lyman reloading manual years ago and have a new edition in the mail. I'm passing familiar with the bullet issues in the 30-30 as there are no factory load spitzers of which I'm aware. The poly tips don't interest me in that rifle anyway.

I have always assumed that the semi-autos convert a lot of the recoil in to the reloading, so it may be that it's not so much less kick in total as it less of a pressure spike - that is to say the energy is released over a few more milliseconds and feels less like a hammer blow.

Lots to ponder, plus I need to figure out where the cash comes from - it's not just the rifle, I'd have to start loading my own and that looks to be around $500 on an entry level.

[Andyinhilo]

Originally Posted by Manuel Garcia O'Kely

Thanks. I read the Lyman reloading manual years ago and have a new edition in the mail. I'm passing familiar with the bullet issues in the 30-30 as there are no factory load spitzers of which I'm aware. The poly tips don't interest me in that rifle anyway.

I have always assumed that the semi-autos convert a lot of the recoil in to the reloading, so it may be that it's not so much less kick in total as it less of a pressure spike - that is to say the energy is released over a few more milliseconds and feels less like a hammer blow.

Lots to ponder, plus I need to figure out where the cash comes from - it's not just the rifle, I'd have to start loading my own and that looks to be around $500 on an entry level.

Try here:
http://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-challenger-kit.html

You should be able to get started for under $300. Lee stuff is inexpensive and works fine.

[Lab-Kid]

I'm just now getting into the longer-range shooting, and having a lot of fun at it. Finally joined a Club with a range that will allow me to shoot beyond 100 yards and looking forward to the challenges of shooting to 600.

I bought a new Savage that, so far, I'm very happy with for the little that I have invested in it:


It is very warm blooded. Saturday, as is typical, my first 5-shot string w/ a clean and cold bore is on the order of 2-2.5 MOA. Second 5-shot string is down to about 1-1.5 MOA. Here is my 3rd 5-shot string from Saturday:

[RED CAT]

Mighty fine shootin, boy!

[doc_ricketts]

Originally Posted by Lab-Kid

I'm just now getting into the longer-range shooting, and having a lot of fun at it. Finally joined a Club with a range that will allow me to shoot beyond 100 yards and looking forward to the challenges of shooting to 600.

I bought a new Savage that, so far, I'm very happy with for the little that I have invested in it:


It is very warm blooded. Saturday, as is typical, my first 5-shot string w/ a clean and cold bore is on the order of 2-2.5 MOA. Second 5-shot string is down to about 1-1.5 MOA. Here is my 3rd 5-shot string from Saturday:

Can't do much better than that last group and the gun should shoot that pretty consistently about 50% of the time. I have found my Savage .308 likes to have the barrel a little dirty but not too dirty (best shooting at 5-20 rounds). I have been experimenting with RL-15 but sticking with a slightly lighter load which is dead on with the same weight of H4895 (40 gr).

[doc_ricketts]

Originally Posted by Andyinhilo

Try here:
http://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-challenger-kit.html

You should be able to get started for under $300. Lee stuff is inexpensive and works fine.

Or even cheaper. I use the Lee Hand Press, Lee dies, and an RCBS primer tool for total of about $100 and get the quality results shown in my posts above. I have checked my powder weights with my RCBS balance and can use the dipper method of powder input to about .1 gr accuracy. Plus the whole fits in a small tackle box and can be used on the bench at the range.

[pilot]

Originally Posted by doc_ricketts

Or even cheaper. I use the Lee Hand Press, Lee dies, and an RCBS primer tool for total of about $100 and get the quality results shown in my posts above. I have checked my powder weights with my RCBS balance and can use the dipper method of powder input to about .1 gr accuracy. Plus the whole fits in a small tackle box and can be used on the bench at the range.

That's the hard way to do it. Lee sells a real press for about the same money.