Dakar Dazed II - the return! Part 1: Project LC4-50

[dashmoto]

This is going to be all manner of awesome.

[barrier]

Didn't KTM make a 450 kit for the previous Rally LC4. There was a rider who campaigned one in some of the FIM rallies a few years back. Can't remember his name!

[Jurassic]

What a great project Jenny (and whoever No2 rider turns out to be), the very best of luck to you.

[wrk2surf]

Originally Posted by barrier

Didn't KTM make a 450 kit for the previous Rally LC4. There was a rider who campaigned one in some of the FIM rallies a few years back. Can't remember his name!

Yes they did make quite a few of them in 2004... basically just a smaller barrel (89mm) piston with a shorter rod on a 660 rally.. Ktm made a 400 and 620 cc LC4 motor for quite a few years actually.


Good luck Jenny!

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly501

This is very cool, it's going to be great to follow this. Just remember that orange paint and 37 clicks of suspension adjustment don't make up for being a shit rider Does that mean you will be able to swap the bike between 690 and 450 depending which race you're going to?

Hi Hillbilly! - yes, that is certainly an option for people - although as it is a crank/rod and piston kit, it's not just going to be a 5 minute job so to speak...

Fortunately there are plenty of secondhand 690s around now - either the Enduro, or the SMC and Duke version too of course, so sourcing a second engine and building that up with the 450 kit would mean you'd then have the option of swapping between a 450 and a 690 as required - which would be just a couple of hours work?

That said, personally I will be campaigning the 450cc version throughout the year, as we want to rack up plenty of miles on it to prove it will go the [Dakar] distance with no problems... We also have some specific long distance endurance tests planned too - watch this space!

In the meantime, John will be racing his 690cc bike at the Tuareg Rally this coming March - that will essentially be proving the chassis spec we have in mind, including a fancy new shock from Dutch company TracTive (they are ex-WP guys that set up on their own when WP was 'absorbed' by KTM)...

Then once the 450cc engine is ready to install, we'll simply swap it over and reprogram the stock ECU with the specific map for the 450.

Sounds all so simple when I write it down doesn't it?!

Jx

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by Boondoggle

Nice post, but it needs a "Donate" button please...

Hi Boondoggle!

I'm sure you've seen the new www.jennydakar.com website is up and running now, and certainly it is my intention to get some merchandise together as soon as possible to help kick-start the campaign...

I've been discussing ideas with a design company, and initially we'll be producing a range of T-shirts - certainly I'd like to have some team gear together before April (the Hellas Rally) to help support our test program throughout the year.

Once the official Dakar entries open in May, then we'll see the actual 2014 campaign coming together, with team swag and other goodies...

I'm also looking to ebay a few bits and bobs that people might like - including some cool Dakar memorabilia I have squirreled away!

As soon as the facility is there, I'll let everyone know - thank you so much for getting on board!

Jenny x

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by Deadly99

Or ride it to South America with a 690 engine. Swap consumables and engine, race, then reswap and ride home.

Hee hee - funny you should say that!

Certainly the plan this year is for me to ride the 450 to the Hellas Rally and back - that is from the UK down to Italy to get the ferry, race the event, and then ride it home again - to really prove the point that this engine is going to be ultra reliable!

Similarly, I have a plan for the US bike too - once that is built up (in San Francisco), I'd like to run a dual-sport fund raiser weekend - some riding, AV presentation, raffle, that kind of thing...

Then the idea is ride the kitted bike right across the USA - Nevada, Utah, Colorado etc etc. and end up on the east coast where we'll ship the bike to the UK (it's no cheaper to send it from the east coast, but hell, the journey will be fun!) - and chatting with Ron at KTM Twins recently, he suggested we put together a series of fund-raiser rides/evenings en route - for bike clubs and ADVriders etc?

It would be great to think people would turn out and support the cross-country ride - even ride along for some of it?

I've ridden across the USA twice now, including the Trans-Am Trail, the Sierras, Moab, Rockies etc. so I'm sure I can put a corking route together!

It will be a fantastic way to bed the bike in, and a great way to meet supporters on the way - particularly as I really want to help promote the whole Dakar thing in the US for 2014...

So if anyone is able to help out with suitable venues etc in that regard, please do get in touch of course!

Jx

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by kyns

Ok, cool.

Interesting to see how this 4 50 project compares to the factory 450rr, power / weight wise.
For sure bit more weight, but maybe not too much difference.

And good luck for your Dakar race.

Yes - one of the things we are hoping to get together is a back to back test with a 450RR (hmmmmm, now who do I know in the UK with one of those then?!), just to see how they ride in comparison... I'll be writing a series of features in the UK press over this coming year, and certainly I think that would make a good story?

Of course we are not expecting to have the same outright performance as a Factory 450 - but we are confident that it will be putting out pretty much the same power as a typical enduro 450cc engine - so we'll be in the ball-park at least.

I expect the LC4-50 with the Rally Raid Evo2 kit will weigh in the region of 10Kg more than a factory bike - not a huge amount, and it should be pretty unbreakable which is the key thing - after all, I'm only looking for a solid finish, not to prove anything other than we can engineer a bike, and prove it's worth by getting it to the end of the race with hopefully as little mechanical interference as possible!

Jx

[Boondoggle]

What's your time frame on the Cross-US ride?

The big ADV Rallies in the East are Rick's Rendezvous in Tennessee in mid-May, BYOB in West Virginia at the end of June, and CroMag up in Vermont at the end of September.

And those are just the big ones (plus, most of the "small" ones have just as much attendance)

You are guaranteed a welcome at any of them, I'm sure.

[Tome]

I'm a bit late to the party but still
A great build you've got going on too!

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by wrk2surf

Yes they did make quite a few of them in 2004... basically just a smaller barrel (89mm) piston with a shorter rod on a 660 rally.. Ktm made a 400 and 620 cc LC4 motor for quite a few years actually.


Good luck Jenny!

Yes - thats right, there was a sleeved down version of the previous generation LC4, which kind of was the inspiration for this project to be honest!

However, once we got a 690 engine apart, we realised that a narrower bore just wasn't going to work with the shape of the combustion chamber head - the valves and everything are just too big to make any meaningful reduction...

However, John did a few calculations, and worked out that by having a longer rod and a shorter stroke, we could get the required capacity while retaining the original barrel and bore - all we would have to do is modify the piston profile to regain the compression that we'd lose...

As I mentioned in my initial post, there is a direct benefit here for regular 690 owners too (including the 654 and 690cc variants), in that it will be straightforward enough to also create a stock replacement together with a hi-comp piston for a regular 690 too - all from the same blanks... in fact because everything can be computer modeled beforehand, it is perfectly possible to dial in the compression ration you want, and shape the piston as required!

It is certainly John's intention to have a batch of 690 pistons available for sale as soon as possible, if only to help offset some of the engine development costs, which you might imagine are quite significant...

I spoke with John this afternoon in fact, and he is making good progress with the prototype crank - typically he loves to do things that people say can't be done - and sure enough, he has managed to split a stock 690 crank (by making his own tool), and welded it up - and will begin machining it this coming week - photos to follow of course!

Jx

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by Tome

I'm a bit late to the party but still
A great build you've got going on too!

Hi Tome! - don't worry, you're not late at all - the party is only just beginning!!!

Jx

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by Boondoggle

What's your time frame on the Cross-US ride?

The big ADV Rallies in the East are Rick's Rendezvous in Tennessee in mid-May, BYOB in West Virginia at the end of June, and CroMag up in Vermont at the end of September.

And those are just the big ones (plus, most of the "small" ones have just as much attendance)

You are guaranteed a welcome at any of them, I'm sure.

Hi BD - thanks for those dates! - It's possible the US bike would be ready by the end of May, but I think realistically, the trip is unlikely to happen before the end of June and into July at the moment- making the most of the summer, and have some fun in the Rockies en route too! (ahem, I mean 'serious altitude testing' in Colorado of course!)

That way we can ship the bike during August, prep it in the UK during September, and have both team bikes ready for the Maroc Rally in October - that is the pencilled plan at the moment anyway!

Jx

[Jurassic]

Are you able to carry over your 2013 Dakar start Jenny (I'm sure I read this somewhere) to save the uncertainty of the normal entry process?

[juames]

Don't forget probably the biggest...the Roaming Rally just over the Can-US boarder in mid June! Some fun riding to test the new bike out on, and we'd LOVE to have a chance to see the LC4-50 (not to mention JMo and Piglet) in person! And Montreal would be a great port to ship the bike to the UK from.