Countersteering confusion : (

[Lion BR]

Originally Posted by Fajita Dave

. Maybe I'm just not giving it enough credit for how much it effects the motorcycle compared to other aspects?

You said it and I agree, that's where it seems the issue is on the points you are making.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by Racer111v

Lots of turning with out counter steering......yes I know this is impossible. * not me in the vid*

You cannot see the rider's actions. The leaning and weighting of the pegs is what makes it happen without the bike crashing highside. That is why the steering in the direction works like it does. I have a Bultaco and did that stuff.

But again as with all countersteering threads, it goes to hell with the science. A hell of a lot of us can walk, but don't have a clue about all the movement and science involved in the action.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by Jedl

And that is exactly the group to which I was referring.



Really, you think so?? Such has not been my experience. A very high percentage of people that ride motorcycles, knew how to ride a bicycle at a basic level before they started riding motorcycles. I'm confident that a much smaller fraction of those people were skilled cyclists before they started riding motorcycles. Again, I was talking about people that know how to ride a bicycle, not highly-skilled cyclists, but people who learned how to ride a bicycle as a kid and then assume that they will know how to operate a motorcycle because of that limited experience.

I have no issue with your description of how experienced cyclists approach riding bicycles at a high / aggressive level or how those skills relate to motorcycle dynamics. My comments about bicyclists was about what you've called "peddlers". Fair enough ??

,

Then you should realize what I was saying. Having been around in sales and on the forums,most people who bring up bicycling relating it to motorcycling are most frequently serious cyclists. They relate it to their two wheel experience. Those who just pedal around without thought.will also not relate the experience to that of riding a motorcycle unless asked about it. They don't get the relationship.

That was what I was saying. They get it.

[i_4ce]

I'd like to see if a person that does not have the concept of counter steering in mind can pass the swerve test. To pass that test I think you have to be fully committed in the belief of counter steering.

I think the hurt report mentioned riders were crashing into things they were trying to avoid because in a panic situation the riders resorted to a normal steering action causing them to counter steer into the object.

[390beretta]

I honestly can't believe this thread has lived this long.....or that there's been so much "discussion" of this simple damn principle. Anyone who's ridden a bicycle as a kid, or a motorcycle as an adult, should "get it". I will admit that when I started riding motorcycles as a teenager, my "intuitive" sense was "pull the handlebar toward me to turn the opposite direction", and I still do that, although I push and pull, since the whole concept of "countersteering" has come to vogue. But hey, the concept is about as complicated as "the harder you hit a tennis ball, the farther it'll go". Where the hell is all the confusion?

[Al Goodwin]

AMEN

Like I said earlier....just a couple of short rides is all it should take.

For the non-believers out there, watch a motorcycle roadrace sometime, pay close,attention to Amy slow motion of a right/left, or vice-versa, transition. To get from full-lean left to full-lean right quickly takes an aggressive counter-steering input. If I was savy at imbeding video I'd just do that.

Somebody find one and post it here.....PLEASE.

Originally Posted by 390beretta

I honestly can't believe this thread has lived this long.....or that there's been so much "discussion" of this simple damn principle. Anyone who's ridden a bicycle as a kid, or a motorcycle as an adult, should "get it". I will admit that when I started riding motorcycles as a teenager, my "intuitive" sense was "pull the handlebar toward me to turn the opposite direction", and I still do that, although I push and pull, since the whole concept of "countersteering" has come to vogue. But hey, the concept is about as complicated as "the harder you hit a tennis ball, the farther it'll go". Where the hell is all the confusion?

[PSYCHO II]

Originally Posted by Al Goodwin

For the non-believers out there, watch a motorcycle roadrace sometime, pay close,attention to Amy slow motion of a right/left, or vice-versa, transition. To get from full-lean left to full-lean right quickly takes an aggressive counter-steering input. If I was savy at imbeding video I'd just do that.

Somebody find one and post it here.....PLEASE.

Perhaps you would like to see one when the rider doesn't counter-steer and remains on target fixation.

[Barry]

Originally Posted by 390beretta

I honestly can't believe this thread has lived this long.....or that there's been so much "discussion" of this simple damn principle. Anyone who's ridden a bicycle as a kid, or a motorcycle as an adult, should "get it". I will admit that when I started riding motorcycles as a teenager, my "intuitive" sense was "pull the handlebar toward me to turn the opposite direction", and I still do that, although I push and pull, since the whole concept of "countersteering" has come to vogue. But hey, the concept is about as complicated as "the harder you hit a tennis ball, the farther it'll go". Where the hell is all the confusion?

The length of this thread (and similar threads) may be a commentary on just how under developed the skills of the average rider might be...

Barry

[640 Armageddon]

I do not know if this book has come up to this thread at all but they explain everything from what the suspension does to infinity...

http://www.amazon.com/How-Why-Motorc.../dp/8879113445

[Al Goodwin]

This one, plus "Twist of the Wrist II".....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/09650...9549670&sr=8-1

[Boon Booni]

Originally Posted by Barry

The length of this thread (and similar threads) may be a commentary on just how under developed the skills of the average rider might be...

Barry

...or a commentary on just how long winter is.

[Griffin44]

Originally Posted by markk53

...
But again as with all countersteering threads, it goes to hell with the science. A hell of a lot of us can walk, but don't have a clue about all the movement and science involved in the action.

True but I'm not sure so many of us would argue with a kinesioligist about the physics of walking. Yet many will argue with well informed and demonstrably well equipped scientists about counter steeering.

[pretbek]

Originally Posted by 390beretta

I Anyone who's ridden a bicycle as a kid, or a motorcycle as an adult, should "get it".

Should, but many don't.

Not all riders are aware that they push steer, so in an emergency they will NOT push left to go left.
They will either push left to go right, or not push at all and try to manage with just body lean like they always managed.

[Lion BR]

Originally Posted by pretbek

Should, but many don't.

Not all riders are aware that they push steer, so in an emergency they will NOT push left to go left.
They will either push left to go right, or not push at all and try to manage with just body lean like they always managed.

I think this is it!

[SteelJM1]

My SV is a pretty good demo bike for this. It does the opposite of 'falling into corners' as a proper sportbike should. You have to push it in... and continue pushing to hold the curve, otherwise she'll stand up on her own and quickly. Right hand curve, push on the right clipon. To take it faster/sharper, push harder, and keep it up until the exit.