ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-30-2013, 02:38 AM   #166
John Smallberries
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,232
list fix

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
Wroooong. My TE300 is very much carbed. Im looking forward to the day that KTM adopts direct injected 2-strokes...and hope they license the technology from polaris who's proven it... and hope they have a retrofit kit for the carbed ones. It's brand new and already I'm tired of fiddling with the goddamn jets and needles to get it to run great, which i'll just have to fiddle with again once it gets warmer. Or I go up in elevation. Or the humidity rises. And it won't drink expensive gas like it's going out of style.
I tried to limit the list to bikes advertised by the manufacturer as "dual sport" or "adventure" - aligned with the OP question. I know you can add a light kit to many dirt bikes to get them street legal, but I was trying to keep it simple. I think a few of the carb'd Hondas listed fit into that category (bring on the corrections!!!) My bad if I miss a few...

From their website, I don't see a Husaberg sold as a dual-sport (TE300 - "Pure Enduro"). Did I miss that one?
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 06:14 AM   #167
Lion BR
I'd rather be riding
 
Lion BR's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Oddometer: 3,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
I had a 1980 Scirocco with a Bosch mechanical fuel injection system (was that the Jetronic?) It was my first fuel-injected car and I recall it was pretty powerful (for a 1.6 litre engine of that era,) always started easily, and ran smootly under all conditions. Not needing to have mastery of an idiosynchratic choke and throttle-pumping ritual needed to get my previous old British cars going on a cold morning was an epiphany.

I recall the SUs on many old British cars being fairly low maintenance (apart from constantly topping up the dashpots with oil) and effective. The absolute worst were the twin Strombergs on my old US-spec TR-6. The UK model with Lucas mechanical injection had a full 50% more horsepower and vastly superior running.
I had a 1982 and a 1987 Sciroccos. Never a problem. The 81 Porsche 924 is the one that had a problem. It always started but had a miss, a flat spot at 3K RPM. Then I moved from old German cars to old Italian cars. The 1969 Alfa Romeo Berlina and the 1987 Alfa Romeo Milano. The Milano, that is the car I miss the most of all old cars I've had, with that great V-6 motor. Sold it when I moved out west in 2005. A friend of mine has the Berlina now. It still runs (in 2008 he drove it cross country, from Oregon to Ohio).

But back to fuel injector vs carburators. There is no looking back. Except for the fun of working on them in the garage, taking the carburator out for a rebuild. The self reliance thing. That was fun. But I'm so glad now that I press the go button and the FI vehicles always start.
__________________
Whenever we are riding, we are an ambassador to our sport

I'd rather be riding!


Lion BR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 06:14 AM   #168
Lion BR
I'd rather be riding
 
Lion BR's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Oddometer: 3,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingoff View Post
my 81 928s ran perfectly
no problems
with fuel injection
just the thirst

ok lets discuss german fuel injection. lol

Well, that one had a V-8 motor if I'm not mistaken. I whole different animal than my poor man's 924.
__________________
Whenever we are riding, we are an ambassador to our sport

I'd rather be riding!


Lion BR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 08:07 AM   #169
Animo
Beastly n00b
 
Animo's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Playa del Carmen
Oddometer: 4,811
The notion that “an adventure bike” will experience the same environmental extremes as a bike racing the Dakar is outlandish.

A good example of why “adventure bikes” with FI are preferred over Carbed bikes can be read here:

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=941

I own a Yamaha 125cc Lander which is carbed and a Yamaha 250cc Lander that is FI.

The two bikes can be been parked for 3 months and the 125cc is the one that will not start. The carb needs to be removed, cleaned and constantly maintained.

The 250cc with is FI starts in seconds regardless of how long it sits there and has never had a problem with starting or the injectors.

I will never buy a bike with a carburetor again.
__________________
Life is good, even in adversity!

Yucatan | Chiapas | Belize 1 | Belize 2 | QRoo | Guanajuato
Animo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 08:52 AM   #170
SteelJM1
Undercover KTM rider
 
SteelJM1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Tucson
Oddometer: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
I tried to limit the list to bikes advertised by the manufacturer as "dual sport" or "adventure" - aligned with the OP question. I know you can add a light kit to many dirt bikes to get them street legal, but I was trying to keep it simple. I think a few of the carb'd Hondas listed fit into that category (bring on the corrections!!!) My bad if I miss a few...

From their website, I don't see a Husaberg sold as a dual-sport (TE300 - "Pure Enduro"). Did I miss that one?
Haha no, you didn't. you just said ALL KTM's but i suppose it depends on ones definiton of 'all'. Anyway my point was that I'm a fan of FI, and really don't see any advantages to carbs over FI anymore these days. the FI system on my SV1k has been working flawlessly for 7 years now. Theres really no reason that the euro enduro makers shouldn't start going to DI for their 2-smokes, since the sled companies have been doing it for a few years and it's proven to work. Increase power, decrease fuel consumption and emissions, and most importantly, perfect 'jetting' all the time. Pleeease KTM do this, and make a retrofit kit available!
SteelJM1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:07 PM   #171
Mambo Dave OP
Backyard Adventurer
 
Mambo Dave's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Oddometer: 4,542
I guess I'm not against EFI, but if it's on an Adventure-marketed bike, it should surely be built in to have all critical pieces of it built in and protected enough that it isn't getting hurt when the bike is dropped. I guess this is an area I've really never thought of carbs as superior, or even thought of them at all - in my experience, it's non-existent to have carb damage due to a get-off that would prevent the bike from running correctly. Other things may be damaged, but the fuel system in a carbed adventure bike doesn't seem a concern.

Tree branches reaching in and yanking on carb parts just isn't usually a concern with a single central carb during a lay-down / get-off. I haven't studied how protected most single-cylider EFI systems are on modern MX bikes, but surely they're not fragile?
__________________
"After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion
that more people cruise the internet looking for reasons why
X bike won't work in Y scenario rather than actually riding
their motorcycles
." --
RyanR
Mambo Dave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:58 PM   #172
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animo View Post
The notion that “an adventure bike” will experience the same environmental extremes as a bike racing the Dakar is outlandish.

A good example of why “adventure bikes” with FI are preferred over Carbed bikes can be read here:

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=941

I own a Yamaha 125cc Lander which is carbed and a Yamaha 250cc Lander that is FI.

The two bikes can be been parked for 3 months and the 125cc is the one that will not start. The carb needs to be removed, cleaned and constantly maintained.

The 250cc with is FI starts in seconds regardless of how long it sits there and has never had a problem with starting or the injectors.

I will never buy a bike with a carburetor again.
It only takes a minute to shut the fuel off, run it until it quits, then drain the last drops out of the float bowl. It's not the carburetor's fault.
__________________
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" _____ Margaret Thatcher
ttpete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 06:32 PM   #173
VxZeroKnots
Beastly Adventurer
 
VxZeroKnots's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Durango CO
Oddometer: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
Haha no, you didn't. you just said ALL KTM's but i suppose it depends on ones definiton of 'all'. Anyway my point was that I'm a fan of FI, and really don't see any advantages to carbs over FI anymore these days. the FI system on my SV1k has been working flawlessly for 7 years now. Theres really no reason that the euro enduro makers shouldn't start going to DI for their 2-smokes, since the sled companies have been doing it for a few years and it's proven to work. Increase power, decrease fuel consumption and emissions, and most importantly, perfect 'jetting' all the time. Pleeease KTM do this, and make a retrofit kit available!
It clearly says dual sport at the top of the post you quoted.

reading comprehension owns you.
__________________
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure

No bike does everything perfectly. In fact, no bike does anything until someone gets on it to ride.

VxZeroKnots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 06:43 PM   #174
fallingoff
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: syd oz
Oddometer: 3,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Well, that one had a V-8 motor if I'm not mistaken. I whole different animal than my poor man's 924.
true but same fuel injection i think.

just chipped my diesel grande cherokee jeep, $120, plug and play

still will take it out in the bush,

spent too much of my life trying to jet my bikes.

one mistake and a hole in the piston.

probably would not have happened on fi bikes

i remember when in the 70's

the worry about electronic ignition

still waitng for one of mine to go wrong

cheers
fallingoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 07:14 PM   #175
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,208
I feel the same way about radiators, plus they add weight up high.
Then you have to add guards and shields and can still bust one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
I guess I'm not against EFI, but if it's on an Adventure-marketed bike, it should surely be built in to have all critical pieces of it built in and protected enough that it isn't getting hurt when the bike is dropped. I guess this is an area I've really never thought of carbs as superior, or even thought of them at all - in my experience, it's non-existent to have carb damage due to a get-off that would prevent the bike from running correctly. Other things may be damaged, but the fuel system in a carbed adventure bike doesn't seem a concern.

Tree branches reaching in and yanking on carb parts just isn't usually a concern with a single central carb during a lay-down / get-off. I haven't studied how protected most single-cylider EFI systems are on modern MX bikes, but surely they're not fragile?
NJ-Brett is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 08:46 PM   #176
corndog67
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Oddometer: 1,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I feel the same way about radiators, plus they add weight up high.
Then you have to add guards and shields and can still bust one.
Both of my current bikes have radiators. The weight is of no concern, they only hold about a pint or two of coolant, and the radiators are both aluminum. No issues, ever, on any of the watercooled bikes I've owned, and there have been a lot.
corndog67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 11:14 PM   #177
fallingoff
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: syd oz
Oddometer: 3,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
Both of my current bikes have radiators. The weight is of no concern, they only hold about a pint or two of coolant, and the radiators are both aluminum. No issues, ever, on any of the watercooled bikes I've owned, and there have been a lot.
+1
never broken one in my numerous fallingoff's. lol
fallingoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 10:04 AM   #178
Animo
Beastly n00b
 
Animo's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Playa del Carmen
Oddometer: 4,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
It only takes a minute to shut the fuel off, run it until it quits, then drain the last drops out of the float bowl. It's not the carburetor's fault.
Yes, of course, but it only takes me a second to turn the ignition off, it is not FI's fault
__________________
Life is good, even in adversity!

Yucatan | Chiapas | Belize 1 | Belize 2 | QRoo | Guanajuato
Animo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:30 PM   #179
SteelJM1
Undercover KTM rider
 
SteelJM1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Tucson
Oddometer: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
It clearly says dual sport at the top of the post you quoted.

reading comprehension owns you.
Yes... yes it does. And yes I am. Regardless, FI is the way of the present. Can't really blame the snapped off fuel injector on that BMW on the fundamentals of the system, just... erm.. 'curious' German engineering.
SteelJM1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 08:10 AM   #180
Schlug
JockeyfullofBourbon
 
Schlug's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: put something on and stay in that position.
Oddometer: 7,246
First of all, the fuel injector plug on the BMW didn't break. It went on the German Holiday.

Secondly, I have never, ever had any issues on any FI bikes I've ever owned, say, 135,000 miles? Even the rudimentary FI system on the F650 is bomber and never let me down regardless of what crap fuel I was forced to buy.

Although I don't have one, I did use my 1998 XR400 to tow a WR426 out of Evart with a broken and leaking radiator. I have no idea how thin the oil in the XR was by the time we made it back to the truck, but it was damn hot.

I have guards for the F650 Dakar somewhere but I can't be arse to fit them. Didn't stop me riding 1,000 miles of gravel last summer.

I have no need for rad guards on the 1150 GS or the XR.

I have no need for a battery on the XR400. I suppose, by some of the postings here the XR400 is the optimal adventure bike. No FI to fail, no battery to go tits up with a dead short, and no rads to break.
That being said the new BMW 1200 GS is watercooled and gave me morning wood.
__________________
"So what makes this protest different is that you're set to die, Bobby?"
--May well come to that.
"You start a hunger strike to protest for what you believe in. You don't start already determined to die or am I missing somethin' here?"
-- It's in their hands. Our message is clear. They're seeing our determination.
Schlug is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014