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Old 02-04-2013, 06:59 AM   #2866
ph0rk
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Still.




(Okay, maybe the color changed)
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:02 AM   #2867
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:57 AM   #2868
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Put an 800 in there and keep the weight down (way down) and I'm in. Or do it for the Versys, either way. I'm easy.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:24 AM   #2869
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Put an 800 in there and keep the weight down (way down) and I'm in. Or do it for the Versys, either way. I'm easy.
Kawasaki doesn't have a motor that meets those specs. Neither do any of the other big 4, really, unless you want a massively retuned GSX750
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #2870
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Kawasaki doesn't have a motor that meets those specs. Neither do any of the other big 4, really, unless you want a massively retuned GSX750
You mean like this bike?

FZ8.



106 horsepower. 60 ft-lbs torque. 460 pounds wet. Looks like FUN!
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:55 PM   #2871
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You mean like this bike?

FZ8.



106 horsepower. 60 ft-lbs torque. 460 pounds wet. Looks like FUN!
Well, for one, the 2011 er-6n was $6699. 2011 fz8 was $8490

Yeah, I suppose that's one example at nearly 25% more money. They aren't selling well at all, either. I've seen several early models collecting dust in showrooms. A shame, I'd have at least tested one if they came with ABS here,

I don't see how that makes the er-6n a bad bike, either.

Further, the er-6n's power curve is much better for around town duty:


vs fz8:



Thats mostly what I meant - the point of the er-6n (and bikes like it) is usable midrange power, not peaky race power. The gsx-r750 actually has a flatter torque curve than the fz8, for even -more- money.

Their price differential is likely much worse in other countries, too.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:08 PM   #2872
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I'd have a hard time thinking the ER-6N needs more power, that motor is incredibly tractable and has a lot of punch at street speeds.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:52 PM   #2873
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Yeah, I suppose that's one example at nearly 25% more money. They aren't selling well at all, either. I've seen several early models collecting dust in showrooms. A shame, I'd have at least tested one if they came with ABS here,

You stated that no Japanese factory had an 800cc sport naked. I just reminded you of the bike you've never seen in the wild. I've only ever seen one not in a showroom, and would rather have the Ninja than the FZ8. For exactly the reasons you posted.


But within that price range and engine size I would like one of these more than the Kaw.



I like the looks and feel better than the Ninja 650, as we don't have the latest EN6R in the states. If that EN6R did come here I would have some serious figuring to do...
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:21 PM   #2874
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Originally Posted by Tim_Tom View Post
You stated that no Japanese factory had an 800cc sport naked. I just reminded you of the bike you've never seen in the wild. I've only ever seen one not in a showroom, and would rather have the Ninja than the FZ8. For exactly the reasons you posted.


But within that price range and engine size I would like one of these more than the Kaw.


I like the looks and feel better than the Ninja 650, as we don't have the latest EN6R in the states. If that EN6R did come here I would have some serious figuring to do...
I still don't get why they go to all the trouble to make and import non-abs bikes in the middleweight category.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #2875
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Originally Posted by Tim_Tom View Post
Y

But within that price range and engine size I would like one of these more than the Kaw.



I like the looks and feel better than the Ninja 650, as we don't have the latest EN6R in the states. If that EN6R did come here I would have some serious figuring to do...
I've never ridden the Kaw twin, but I have ridden a friends Gen. 1 SV650. Wow, what a fun little bike! And with an aftermarket exhaust, it had an intoxicating sound! . I came real close to picking one up on more than one occasion too. The Kawasaki parallel twins, while a good engine with good power characteristic (from what I understand at least) just don't tickle my aural thrill machinery at all. I love my Ducati's sound. I love my H-D's sound. I love my Buell's sound. My BMW doesn't do it for me at all in that area, and that's what the farty sound of the Kawasaki twins make me think of. Different, sure, but still, there's just nothing like the noise of a nice v-twin, IMO And that's not even mentioning the feel of the engine's power pulses.

Maybe that's a weird reason to buy a particular bike to some people, but a bike is more than just a machine to me, and they have to excite me with sensation for me to be truly satisfied riding them. In fact, that's the reason I hate inline 4s. I've owned a few and ridden quite a few more, but once I sampled my first Ducati, it just changed my perception of what I wanted in a motorcycle. Sure, the 4s are fast and efficient, but every time I ride one now I get off just feeling BLA...
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:18 PM   #2876
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I still don't get why they go to all the trouble to make and import non-abs bikes in the middleweight category.
I can't say for sure, but I'd guess that it has to with meeting a price point. For the most part it seems that in the middleweight category the biggest buyers are newer riders and those that are very price conscious. The suspension componentry chosen for use in this category also reflects this market direction. The manufacturers probably feel that ABS's added cost wouldn't be well received by the core group of potential buyers in this market segment.

Personally, while I do appreciate the potential benefits of ABS, and did choose to pay the added cost when I purchased my GS (it was an option), I don't let the absence of ABS keep me from a bike I otherwise enjoy. If available, I may take it, but it's not a deciding factor for me. I fact. I've gotten two new bikes since buying the GS, and neither of them have it.


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Old 02-04-2013, 06:31 PM   #2877
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Originally Posted by Randy View Post
I've never ridden the Kaw twin, but I have ridden a friends Gen. 1 SV650. Wow, what a fun little bike! And with an aftermarket exhaust, it had an intoxicating sound! . I came real close to picking one up on more than one occasion too. The Kawasaki parallel twins, while a good engine with good power characteristic (from what I understand at least) just don't tickle my aural thrill machinery at all. I love my Ducati's sound. I love my H-D's sound. I love my Buell's sound. My BMW doesn't do it for me at all in that area, and that's what the farty sound of the Kawasaki twins make me think of. Different, sure, but still, there's just nothing like the noise of a nice v-twin, IMO And that's not even mentioning the feel of the engine's power pulses.

Maybe that's a weird reason to buy a particular bike to some people, but a bike is more than just a machine to me, and they have to excite me with sensation for me to be truly satisfied riding them. In fact, that's the reason I hate inline 4s. I've owned a few and ridden quite a few more, but once I sampled my first Ducati, it just changed my perception of what I wanted in a motorcycle. Sure, the 4s are fast and efficient, but every time I ride one now I get off just feeling BLA...
The 650 Kawasaki twin sounds a lot better once the catalytic converter is gotten rid of and a decent pipe is installed. I have a Leo Vince can with the db killer installed on the Versys. I consider the bike to be a "standard", and it's been a very good all around utility machine for me. It'll cruise at 80 all day and return about 48 mpg. The Versys makes about 60 hp at the rear wheel with good mid-range torque, and the other variants make more, but the torque peak also comes in higher in the rev range.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:44 PM   #2878
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I can't say for sure, but I'd guess that it has to with meeting a price point.
I absolutely get that, but on the one hand abs can't be added the way a suspension can be modified, and on the other, it doesn't cost nearly what they charge for it as an option. I can't wait for the euro standards to take effect, but even after that we will still see non abs bikes - where else do they sell them? It is absurd that bikes like the fz8, the versys, the cb1000r and the svf650 aren't available with abs in the US when they are available with abs virtually everywhere else in the world.

oh, and on topic, I still want an R1200R. (with abs, of course)
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:59 PM   #2879
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I absolutely get that, but on the one hand abs can't be added the way a suspension can be modified, and on the other, it doesn't cost nearly what they charge for it as an option. I can't wait for the euro standards to take effect, but even after that we will still see non abs bikes - where else do they sell them? It is absurd that bikes like the fz8, the versys, the cb1000r and the svf650 aren't available with abs in the US when they are available with abs virtually everywhere else in the world.

oh, and on topic, I still want an R1200R. (with abs, of course)
I'm not denying your points at all. But, I think that people often discredit the manufacture's marketing acumen. While they do miss the mark sometimes, I think it's all too easy for us enthusiast to play armchair quarterback. I don't believe that they make uneducated marketing decisions. The world marketplace is far to complex and competitive for that. They have it down to a fine science, just like most business that survive and thrive today in the ever changing economic climate. It's always a compromise between the financials, the engineers, and the marketing gurus. But somewhere along the line some very smart people decide where that compromise is to fall. If they believed it would be economically beneficial to offer ABS on bikes in this market segment, here in the States, I'm sure they would. The very fact that none of the four big players do, tells me something...


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Old 02-04-2013, 08:13 PM   #2880
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It's always a compromise between the financials, the engineers, and the marketing gurus.
While that is true, there is also a culture of telling the client what they want to hear in market research, or so I hear from my colleagues that go into that sector.

Anyway, more images of bikes I want:

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