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Old 02-06-2013, 06:32 PM   #16
keiji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Klaun View Post
Those test results are interesting, but also keep in mind what the slide times mean. A 4 second slide seems like a looong time sliding down the road (pavement). Both of my low speed get-offs were probably under .5 sec's at the most. You could probably check the multitudes of idiots on the youtube crash vid's and see what their slide times are and see what level of gear would work.

As has been said many times, it all comes down to a balance of protection and comfort. For around town type stuff, impact with moderate abrasion protection would seem to be the priority as speeds tend to be lower. At track speeds you'd want a whole different level of protection.

I would guess that the "Sand 2" pants are designed for off road use, so not sure what the abrasion test is for gravel. Lots of off road stuff seems to be this way - just look at DS gloves! Wouldn't want to go down on pavement with those! I also agree that Revit stuff has been becoming "fashion before practicality".
I don't disagree with you , but it's kind of unsettling to know how little protection that premium over denim jeans is getting you,
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:17 PM   #17
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I think we all probably need to step back and remember that textiles are a complete compromise over leather when it comes to protection. Simple as that.

I was in the closet re-organizing the riding gear and pulled out the Spidi leather track jacket and pants I have...the butt on the pants is TWO layers of 1.2mm leather. When I compare it to my new RP3 suit, it was easy to see how the leather gear was specifically designed to slide down the tarmac at higher speeds and probably survive to a reasonable level.

I'm sure my RP3 and wife's Revit Ventura will be just fine for touring duty; what I gave up in skid resistance is gained in comfort, breathability, lightweight (sort of...maybe not if you count all that RP3 armor). You get the idea though.

How much are you willing to compromise? What is your riding style like? How much of a defensive driver are you? You touring - packing on heavy miles? What is your level of risk tolerance? Do you ride prepped for the crash or for the enjoyment of the ride?

Is it riding season yet? Snow's coming on Friday....I'm ready to cry.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuonoBiker View Post
I think we all probably need to step back and remember that textiles are a complete compromise over leather when it comes to protection. Simple as that.

I was in the closet re-organizing the riding gear and pulled out the Spidi leather track jacket and pants I have...the butt on the pants is TWO layers of 1.2mm leather. When I compare it to my new RP3 suit, it was easy to see how the leather gear was specifically designed to slide down the tarmac at higher speeds and probably survive to a reasonable level.

I'm sure my RP3 and wife's Revit Ventura will be just fine for touring duty; what I gave up in skid resistance is gained in comfort, breathability, lightweight (sort of...maybe not if you count all that RP3 armor). You get the idea though.

How much are you willing to compromise? What is your riding style like? How much of a defensive driver are you? You touring - packing on heavy miles? What is your level of risk tolerance? Do you ride prepped for the crash or for the enjoyment of the ride?

Is it riding season yet? Snow's coming on Friday....I'm ready to cry.
Well said. And you are correct. It's all a compromise. I would never get leather or Gortex simply due to the fact that I live in a really warm/hot climate. I need gear that breathes. I don't mind liners as they allow me to ride north of the Mason-Dixon and still keep me warm. Most don't like the hassle of liners but I like the versatility it offers. I presently have Olympia gear and it has been really awesome. I might just go with Olympia again. Maybe the Moto X.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by burmbuster View Post
Well said. And you are correct. It's all a compromise. I would never get leather or Gortex simply due to the fact that I live in a really warm/hot climate. I need gear that breathes. I don't mind liners as they allow me to ride north of the Mason-Dixon and still keep me warm. Most don't like the hassle of liners but I like the versatility it offers. I presently have Olympia gear and it has been really awesome. I might just go with Olympia again. Maybe the Moto X.
Hard to beat Olympia - rugged build and great prices. If it is comfortable and fits well, go for it...something to be said for staying with what you know.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:11 PM   #20
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dont forget that # of seconds at the test lab is NOT the same of as # of seconds you would slide on the road before protection is gone - it depends on the initial speed and friction coefficient of the pavement at that time.

What it allows to do is to compare the relative performance of different garment under the same test condition - so with some confidence, you might say Revit Sand (ver 1) would perform approx 40% better than levi 501 in terms of abrasion resistance under the same circumstance.

Many people might be happy with the additional 40% performance premium over Levi 501. In comparison most half decent cheaper leather starts at about 3.5 sec or 550% better

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:52 PM   #21
keiji
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Originally Posted by AceRider01 View Post
dont forget that # of seconds at the test lab is NOT the same of as # of seconds you would slide on the road before protection is gone - it depends on the initial speed and friction coefficient of the pavement at that time.

What it allows to do is to compare the relative performance of different garment under the same test condition - so with some confidence, you might say Revit Sand (ver 1) would perform approx 40% better than levi 501 in terms of abrasion resistance under the same circumstance.

Many people might be happy with the additional 40% performance premium over Levi 501. In comparison most half decent cheaper leather starts at about 3.5 sec or 550% better
The EN13595-2 abrasion test involves dropping a 49N (~11 lbs) weight through a distance of 50mm (~2in) on a surface moving 8m/s (~18mph) with 60grit sand paper.

I am a lot heavier than 11 lbs, have fallen a lot more than 2 inches, and move a lot faster than 18mph! That .56 seconds would become even smaller, and a 40% increase over a tiny number is still a tiny number!
This guy crashed at 45mph, highsided, impacted, and rolled the rest of the way. Those first impact did a number on the jacket.
http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/revit-sand-jacket (read emanuel's review)

There are simple design choices that manufacturer's can make to significantly improve abrasion resistance (like putting multiple layers in critical areas) - they don't, and they charge you through the nose for it. I had less of an issue when textile jackets were largely cheaper than leather jackets, but the price has been slowly creeping up and up (or at least my tastes have )
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keiji View Post
The EN13595-2 abrasion test involves dropping a 49N (~11 lbs) weight through a distance of 50mm (~2in) on a surface moving 8m/s (~18mph) with 60grit sand paper.

........ I had less of an issue when textile jackets were largely cheaper than leather jackets, but the price has been slowly creeping up and up (or at least my tastes have )
Yes - dont forget in real life the speed of slide reduces as energy is consumed - so the sliding speed wont be a constant 8m/s...

You really cant extrapolate the # of seconds under EN13595 testing and real-life seconds of survival - they are only good for comparison with other products testing - and yes, you would expect an expensive gear to perform more than 40% better than Levi 501.

Yes double layer is a simple and effective way boosting otherwise mediocre performing fabric into offering some protection - less and less manufacturers doing it because cost saving and people no longer considered them fashionable anymore !
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:10 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keiji View Post
I am a lot heavier than 11 lbs, have fallen a lot more than 2 inches, and move a lot faster than 18mph! That .56 seconds would become even smaller, and a 40% increase over a tiny number is still a tiny number!
This guy crashed at 45mph, highsided, impacted, and rolled the rest of the way. Those first impact did a number on the jacket.
http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/revit-sand-jacket (read emanuel's review)

)
I low sided on the track in full leathers going probably between 35-45mph. Completely trashed my suit. Split seem in leg etc... I was amazed at how much damaged occurred in a relatively slow crash. Like the guy with the rev'it jacket I was fine. I am not defending the rev'it jacket in any way just saying it can't be tough to quantify a gear's protective quality.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keiji View Post
The EN13595-2 abrasion test involves dropping a 49N (~11 lbs) weight through a distance of 50mm (~2in) on a surface moving 8m/s (~18mph) with 60grit sand paper.

I am a lot heavier than 11 lbs, have fallen a lot more than 2 inches, and move a lot faster than 18mph! That .56 seconds would become even smaller, and a 40% increase over a tiny number is still a tiny number!
This guy crashed at 45mph, highsided, impacted, and rolled the rest of the way. Those first impact did a number on the jacket.
http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/revit-sand-jacket (read emanuel's review)

There are simple design choices that manufacturer's can make to significantly improve abrasion resistance (like putting multiple layers in critical areas) - they don't, and they charge you through the nose for it. I had less of an issue when textile jackets were largely cheaper than leather jackets, but the price has been slowly creeping up and up (or at least my tastes have )
Looks like the jacket did its job to me....
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:09 AM   #25
ranmafan
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Originally Posted by GSDonovan View Post
Looks like the jacket did its job to me....
The armour did its job. The jacket shell looks like it has worn through pretty much instantly on contact with pavement. Pants melted. Open vents helped get roadrash and bruises (again, poor design choices).

He was lucky, and ended up tumbling more than sliding, yet not breaking bones (meaning it might have been an even slower crash than he thought). Had it not been for luck, you probably wouldn't be reading that review at all.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:47 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by ranmafan View Post
The armour Open vents helped get roadrash and bruises (again, poor design choices).
This is something that never comes up in these discussions. Vents are holes. In the protective suit. Holes aren't very abrasion resistant
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:56 PM   #27
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Anyone get thier hands on one of the Sand 2 jackets yet?

I was looking at a few jackets at a local dealer last weekend with an eye towards something that would serve me well on longer trips during the summer as well as keep me warm and dry down into the 20s (w/ a heated liner), more on-road than off. The ones they had that caught my eye were the TourMaster Transition 3, Olympia AST 2 and Klim Badlands Pro (yeah, wide range of pricing). Currently my cool-weather jacket is a JR Ballistic 7.0, which is OK for now, and will serve me until the right replacement comes along. I have a waist-length Cortech mesh jacket for the warmer months as well.

My $.02 on what I looked at:

TourMaster Transition 3 - Was only ~$220, fit well, nice quilted liner, but I question how well it would vent when warmer (no methods to keep the vents open). Probably the least protection out of what I was looking at.

Olympia AST - Around $450 (IIRC). Nice, decent venting, wasn't thrilled with the collar. Price point was about the most I really want to pay. Good rep.

Badlands Pro - $899. Seemed built like a tank (as in, keel-haul me behind a semi from here to Tuscon - no problem). Lots of venting options. Good 3DO armor, incl. chest. Kidney belt a +. Was a bit disappointed when I looked into the jacket past the kidney belt and saw the bare back of the outer material. For $899, I think they could've sprung for a full mesh liner. No thermal layer or liner to speak of, though I don't mind that I can use whatever under layers I want. One gripe - The collar 'catches' didn't seem to be strong enough (or in the right place) to keep the collar open. Basically, an awesome jacket, but I'm not sure I'm ready to spend $900 on one.

Which brings me to the Sand 2. Seems like it may be a nice compromise at a price point just above the AST 2. I like the arm vents, and the options of having the cooling vest installed and the neck brace. Rev'it has a good rep, but as some of you have pointed out, the polyester may not be such a good thing. Also, how good is the waterproofing w/o the liner? Yet to see one in person, though...
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:28 PM   #28
opticalmace
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Have any ADVers crash tested the Sand gear? I couldn't find any reports when I searched.

I have the Sand pants but the abrasion test listed up there ^^ (by Ride) makes me a bit nervous about them.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:25 PM   #29
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Just purchased a new Sand-2 and i was not planned to crash it at all
It's too fookin cold here in Holland right now, so no ride today with it. I only use it on the warmer days, were i was used to wear jeans a and a t-shirt, this jacket is now protecting me way more than jeans. When i'm in for speeding, i wear a racetrack-suit.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:14 AM   #30
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Glad to hear about first hand impressions of the new Sand 2. It´s indeed on my target list for 2013.

What about the sizing? Its it true that Rev´it has it done focusing on the US market, say, doing the sizes a bit bigger, compared to european customers?

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