The issues of fuel injectors and "adventure" bikes

[High Country Herb]

As long as the bike will start on the side of a hill with a dead battery, I have no problem with fuel injection or electric start on an adventure bike...

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by High Country Herb

As long as the bike will start on the side of a hill with a dead battery, I have no problem with fuel injection or electric start on an adventure bike...

How did you get in the side of a hill with a dead battery?

By the way, how are we defining "adventure bike" in these discussions?

My definition of an adventure bike would be something capable of reasonably comfortable long distance touring, and some medium duty off road/dirt roads. Certainly not something like a DRZ.

I know, some of you hard asses "can" ride long distances on them, but very very few would or do.

Jim

[larryboy]

Heading out to the desert in the morning...gravity fed carburators, no fuel pump or injectors, full abs delete and stand alone ignition.

[High Country Herb]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

How did you get in the side of a hill with a dead battery?

By the way, how are we defining "adventure bike" in these discussions?

My definition of an adventure bike would be something capable of reasonably comfortable long distance touring, and some medium duty off road/dirt roads. Certainly not something like a DRZ.

I know, some of you hard asses "can" ride long distances on them, but very very few would or do.

Jim

I used to use my XL600R, and traveled around fully loaded (the bike, not me). I never thought about battery issues until I took a friend of mine out into the forest. He was new to his electric start KLR. Climbing out of a canyon on a nasty road, he kept stalling the motor on rocky steps. He was using the starter every 5 feet, and I could hear the battery going. I advised him to just let it idle a few minutes to let the battery recharge. In a pinch, we could point it back downhill and push start it, but we wouldn't have that option with fuel injection.

Because of that, I would be leery of taking an injected bike very far into the wilds by myself. Now I used my Aprilia for road and light forest roads, and the XL (with drastically lowered gearing) for the nasty stuff close to home. Top speed on the XL is now about 70, so it works out fine.

Do those of you who travel across Africa or whatnot with injected bikes carry a solar charger?

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by High Country Herb

I used to use my XL600R, and traveled around fully loaded (the bike, not me). I never thought about battery issues until I took a friend of mine out into the forest. He was new to his electric start KLR. Climbing out of a canyon on a nasty road, he kept stalling the motor on rocky steps. He was using the starter every 5 feet, and I could hear the battery going. I advised him to just let it idle a few minutes to let the battery recharge. In a pinch, we could point it back downhill and push start it, but we wouldn't have that option with fuel injection.

Because of that, I would be leery of taking an injected bike very far into the wilds by myself. Now I used my Aprilia for road and light forest roads, and the XL (with drastically lowered gearing) for the nasty stuff close to home. Top speed on the XL is now about 70, so it works out fine.

Do those of you who travel across Africa or whatnot with injected bikes carry a solar charger?

Sounds like your friend isn't too bright, or he was in over his head.

Honestly, there are so many ways that a bike can break that are not fixable in the rough that FI is the last thing that worries me, batteries too.

I could give a long list of more likely items that you could break that would leave you stranded that are more likely to be an issue than batteries and FI.

Jim

PS 70mph on a thumper flat out removes it from my list of Adventure Bikes! Freeway riding would be a bitch on it.

[Mambo Dave]

Originally Posted by larryboy

Heading out to the desert in the morning...gravity fed carburators, no fuel pump or injectors, full abs delete and stand alone ignition.

Awesome, lol.

Originally Posted by John Smallberries

Just to give this near-dead horse another kick....

I just finished reading through the fantastic Sibirsky Extreme ride report (ongoing - http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=834987)

It would seem to me to directly address the OP question. Walter Colebach has done multiple hard-core adventure rides - including England>Magadan twice (almost). He set out to do another trip staying on dirt roads as much as possible. He had the chance to custom-build a bike incorporating ALL of his combined experience with the terrain, fuel, service available, etc. He had no service truck following him with a mini-dealership of spares (not that there is anything wrong with that!). He chose a BMW G650 X-Challenge with a bone-stock fuel injection system. He specifically stated that he wanted BMW fuel injection as it was reliable, tolerant of huge variability in fuel quality and handled altitude changes well. This bike did 18,000 km of dirt riding (still going) with no reported troubles with the fuel injection (no reported engine problems of any kind - that I saw).

(On the other hand, the KTM had loads of fuel pump and electrical problems.)

Thanks John, I'll read through that.

[High Country Herb]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

Sounds like your friend isn't too bright, or he was in over his head.

He was in over his head, but I have to take some responsibility for that. I misjudged a few things: his ability, the weight of the bike compared to my XL600, and the condition of the road. He ended up crashing into a rock wall, and his wife (at the time) said I tried to kill him.

He is now engaged to a Roller Derby girl, and still wants to go riding with me, so all is good!

[_cy_]

Originally Posted by larryboy

Heading out to the desert in the morning...gravity fed carburators, no fuel pump or injectors, full abs delete and stand alone ignition.

NICE setup!!!

[VxZeroKnots]

Originally Posted by High Country Herb

I used to use my XL600R, and traveled around fully loaded (the bike, not me). I never thought about battery issues until I took a friend of mine out into the forest. He was new to his electric start KLR. Climbing out of a canyon on a nasty road, he kept stalling the motor on rocky steps. He was using the starter every 5 feet, and I could hear the battery going. I advised him to just let it idle a few minutes to let the battery recharge. In a pinch, we could point it back downhill and push start it, but we wouldn't have that option with fuel injection.

Because of that, I would be leery of taking an injected bike very far into the wilds by myself. Now I used my Aprilia for road and light forest roads, and the XL (with drastically lowered gearing) for the nasty stuff close to home. Top speed on the XL is now about 70, so it works out fine.

Do those of you who travel across Africa or whatnot with injected bikes carry a solar charger?

Whether it could be bumped on a discharged but not-completely-dead battery would depend on the fuel injection.

[Warin]

Originally Posted by High Country Herb

Do those of you who travel across Africa or whatnot with injected bikes carry a solar charger?

No.

Unless you have a very large (think many square yards!) it will not have the capability of restoring a faulty battery (not enough current capability).

If the battery is not faulty and has a little charge in it (above say 12 volts open circuit) then you could use a small solar charger .. but it would take many HOURs to recharge the battery...

Better than a solar charger is an other battery and some jumper cables. Make some to fit your bike before you leave!

The above apply for any engine that requires a battery to start, not just EFI, electronic ignition etc.

-------------------
I know someone who rode with a set of charging wires between bikes - the battery was that faulty.

Make your leads long ones?

[bobnoxious67]

...first hand experience, this morning.

Marion, MA
35 degrees
Bikes have been sitting in the unheated garage for 6+ days (Huskys)-2 weeks
2001 Triumph Tiger 955 (with borderline head gasket) EFI...fired right up
2009 Husky TE450 EFI...fired right up
2012 Husky TE250 EFI...fired right up
2006 Yamaha TTR 125...no start
2005 Honda XR50...fired up second kick
1999 Suzuki DR 350 (441 kit and pumper carb)...no start

Yay, you can work on carbs on the side of the road. Good fuckin thing, cause you'll need to

Hey carb lovers/EFU haters...

[bradluke0]

Hi all ! It is proven that a properly jetted carb makes more total power than the same engine with fuel injection . What the fuel injection does better is better starting, better fuel mileage and better part throttle response . When I read the forum posts regarding mapping and trying to load different FI setups for pipes and other engine mods it makes me love my carbs . Also, with carbs is I don't have to depend on someone else when something goes wrong . To each his own I suppose .

[slartidbartfast]

Originally Posted by bradluke0

Hi all ! It is proven that a properly jetted carb makes more total power than the same engine with fuel injection . ...

Proven? Really?

You mean a properly jetted carb makes more power than an economy/emissions tuned EFI. A properly tuned EFI system will do better than any carb. Depending on the bike, tuning the EFI may be easier or harder than setting up a carb and on some particularly highly tuned machines, the power curve with a carb may look like an EKG trace.

[OrangeYZ]

Originally Posted by slartidbartfast

Proven? Really?

You mean a properly jetted carb makes more power than an economy/emissions tuned EFI. A properly tuned EFI system will do better than any carb. Depending on the bike, tuning the EFI may be easier or harder than setting up a carb and on some particularly highly tuned machines, the power curve with a carb may look like an EKG trace.

Dude, he said Proven. That settles it, debate's over, give up before you embarrass yourself further

Originally Posted by bradluke0

Also, with carbs is I don't have to depend on someone else when something goes wrong

You would if you didn't know anything about carbs. Somebody who is willfully ignorant of carbs and refuses to learn anything about them will need help when something goes wrong.

[Dastard]

Originally Posted by High Country Herb

He was using the starter every 5 feet, and I could hear the battery going. I advised him to just let it idle a few minutes to let the battery recharge. In a pinch, we could point it back downhill and push start it, but we wouldn't have that option with fuel injection.

Serious question (as in, not being a smart ass), You can't pop the clutch on an EFI with a dead battery?

(not trying to be a smart ass, I have never actually tried it so I am speaking out of ignorance. I have popped the clutch on several cars and bikes to get them started. I couldn't get my V-Strom started by popping the clutch (it would burble and gurgle, trying to start) but I figured it was because I wasn't going fast enough)