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Old 02-12-2013, 07:39 AM   #76
Foot dragger
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Originally Posted by Fishfund View Post
I do RTW riding, and I want this to have the golden wide ratio 6th gear. When I ride I get over 50 mph everyday. I don't think I've ever ridden through any country where I kept it under 50 mph.
I agree,my DR650 may only be good for certain sorts of off road travel,but on the hiway its happy enough at 70 or even 80 with no undue vibration. Big dirt roads in Colorado or Oregon are fun on a bike that can do 75mph all day with no stress.
My 2011 530 starts pulling hard at 70mph and will zap up to a 100,wide ratios are good.

50mph is droning.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:17 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Out of all the 450 engines in the world,they picked the only one that is a complete oddball and has never gained acceptance for much of anything............But the bike itself is really slick looking,I like the idea of an Adventure bike that isnt a mammoth sized poser bike. Nothing good can come of using that BMW designed engine though.
The CS sprocket having the same center as the swingarm pivot............seems neat but even BMW dropped it on the new Husky/BMW.
I share your concern to a degree, although primarily mine would be the clutch longevity - being crank mounted, it spins much faster than a regular clutch of that size, and therefore can get hotter and fade/fail in tough conditions...

That said, no one really makes a current 450cc engine that is truly ideal for this role - they are all race/performance orientated these days, with limited oil capacity and correspondingly shorter change intervals... and I'm sure CCM had little choice than to go with what was available from their partner/supplier Kymco. I'm sure it would be simple enough to add an oil cooler circuit and increase capacity that way, to help keep things (including the clutch!) cool on the production bikes?


What I find interesting about this thread is that if this bike was a KTM, or even a Husqvarna, people would be cutting off limbs to afford it (5 speeds and close-ratio gearboxes and all!) without even seeing or riding it... in that respect, I think Minkyhead has done a fantastic job here for CCM here by actually poking around with the real thing?

Jx

(btw. for info - the current Husky 449 still has the same concentric output shaft position as it did on the BMW G450 version, its just the swing arm pivot bolt doesn't go all the way through now, so it is slightly easier to change the front sprocket).
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:14 AM   #78
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I'd bet the likes of Speedbrain or Bianchi Prata already have an oil cooler available to bolt straight onto the motor, and it couldn't be that hard to find a home for it in that fairing.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:56 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
The CS sprocket having the same center as the swingarm pivot............seems neat but even BMW dropped it on the new Husky/BMW.
?? Still there on the 449 / 511 bikes and it is a whopping 10 minute job to change the CS sprocket (and you get to grease your swingarm pivots at the same time):

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Old 02-12-2013, 02:03 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Out of all the 450 engines in the world,they picked the only one that is a complete oddball and has never gained acceptance for much of anything............But the bike itself is really slick looking,I like the idea of an Adventure bike that isnt a mammoth sized poser bike. Nothing good can come of using that BMW designed engine though.
The CS sprocket having the same center as the swingarm pivot............seems neat but even BMW dropped it on the new Husky/BMW.
yeah I wondered that too. especially now since BMW has said the dirt market is dead and we're completely out.

i'm sure the CCM guys are now saying , uh why the hell did we pick BMW and that engine. they better figure out a new setup pronto or no one is gonna touch it for fear that BMW will provide zero help and diminishing parts. add to that the aftermarket never fully embrace the 450 BMW.

I understand there is no ideal motor but why pick the engine from way in left field? when you're in bum-fuck east with problems I can tell you you'll find no BMW 450 support. you will find KTM 450 support as well as Yamaha and Honda support.

no doubt it is a way cool bike but they have shoe horned it into a very narrow group of buyers.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:11 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Fishfund View Post
I do RTW riding, and I want this to have the golden wide ratio 6th gear. When I ride I get over 50 mph everyday. I don't think I've ever ridden through any country where I kept it under 50 mph.
you're stretching it a bit. having lived in Mexico for a year and traveled extensively through much of Central America you have to really check your speed for all the things in the road and coming at you. sure you may get over 50 and cruise at 70 at times but much of the travel is lower than the US. a broad power 5 spd would be ideal.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:00 PM   #82
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The KTM trolls are out of the wood work.. bashing a motor they have zero miles on; a motor they have only read about in the KTM sponsored motorcycle magazine.. Typical -- if it ain't orange, than it ain't right!
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #83
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The KTM trolls are out of the wood work.. bashing a motor they have zero miles on; a motor they have only read about in the KTM sponsored motorcycle magazine.. Typical -- if it ain't orange, than it ain't right!
You read my mind...
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:20 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by a1fa View Post
The KTM trolls are out of the wood work.. bashing a motor they have zero miles on; a motor they have only read about in the KTM sponsored motorcycle magazine.. Typical -- if it ain't orange, than it ain't right!
hey Vlad... keep the 450 and come race baja 500 with me this summer!!
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by jasonmt View Post
?? Still there on the 449 / 511 bikes and it is a whopping 10 minute job to change the CS sprocket (and you get to grease your swingarm pivots at the same time):

I wasnt thinking about ease of CS sprocket changing,more about testers who seemed to think it made for wonky rear suspension action. And some how no matter what bike this engine goes in,excess weight seems to play into the picture. CCM has built a neat bike though,wonder if they'll ship any over here?

Signed,KTM Troll.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:34 PM   #86
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The reason why CCM choose the G450X motor is probably due to the fact they got a good deal on the old-new-stock that can pass emissions, hence why the bike is retailing at ~7000 GBP. Simple economics. They did not choose it because it was the best motor, most fuel efficient, and etc. They are getting a lot of performance for very little buy in.

How good, or how you perceive how good the motor is, is up to you and your experience. If you want to compare power performance in numbers and fuel injection and throttle response, you may want to turn around, and turn your monitor off.. They squeezed a lot of juice out of the G450X. Compare the power on 09 vintage motors, and the BMW wins hands down..

The G450X is not the most fuel efficient motor, and the tranny configuration is not best suited for extended trips (in the G450X configuration and chassis). The oil capacity is also not very well suited for extended trips.

The G450X was intended to be raced, trashed, and ridden hard, with occasional enduro here and there. The entire bike was built around this engine for this specific purpose. The bike is an overkill for your typical gravel runner adventurer.

Back onto the subject, I wonder what is the sprocket configuration they selected, and if they made internal changes to the transmission. With such major change to the chassis, it will be a shame to not address the motor to match the chassis and characteristics and the purpose it was built for.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:38 PM   #87
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hey Vlad... keep the 450 and come race baja 500 with me this summer!!
When? That actually sounds like a bad ass idea?
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:40 PM   #88
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When? That actually sounds like a bad ass idea?
May 31 – June 2, 2013

http://score-international.com/2013-baja-500/

Should have some sort of race crew already
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:49 PM   #89
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its a new bike with a high strung motor
but im feeling that i have a use for it on the weeekend aways with some decent trail riding thrown in
i can pack me stuff ride there dump it trail ride and then ride back over three days
#
ill be clear im not a great off road rider far from it ..... i just love trail riding ...but i hate trailers and vans and all that crap
ive done it and cant be bothered ..i get a lot of pleasure riding the back roads and dont worry too much about how long it takes ...i get a nose bleed if the front wheel goes more than six inches in the air

my feeling at the moment is to use the ccm for that sort of two night weekend

ill probably stick with the tenere for moroco as its tough and well suited to the rocky tracks and very capable until it gets really pretty rough or soft i dont think the ccm would be required for 90 percent of the trip

my only trail trail bikes have been xl125 dr350 a xr250 xr400 and drz 400 i get a nose bleed if i go over 40 on a firetrack ...ive used beta 450s and a ktm 525 off road which was too much for me
tired me out ..probably as i couldnt ride them fast enough for them to make sense
so im thinking this could be the ultimate weekend warrior for a fat old man

then again it would be a ready to race rally bike for a expert too ...with a a lower gearing or whatever ??

i could of course sell me tenere 28000 mile up for peanuts and order a new gs for 15 grand
or keep the tenere which is a cracking bike and try out the ccm for more demading terain without racking up 1000s of miles and keep the extra 5 grand to spend on petrol and beer and torque conveters


so thats how im approaching the bike ..im hoping it may do better than some think plodding along like i do ... but lets say it could do ..10.000 miles before a major overhaul at 2000 quid thats three years meetings and trails

if its as good as i hope it to be its not to bad ???

anyway im just saying what i have in mind for it
and im hoping its going to be a real hoot to ride as for around the world bike ..its got a lot of convincing to do

how about around north wales in a weekend with a load of trails thrown in ??? in that context its not any more fickle than a 690 ..but with all the tanks and stuff you need ..ok ok want the 690 maby looking towards 10 grand ??

any way just a insight into my logic ..but now and again you have to buy with your heart instead of your head and a s soon as i saw it i just wanted to give it a chance

less of this









and more of this is the aim ........one of my biggest ever wheelies by the way




if i could have my wish my tenre at 140 kgms would be at the top of my list a grat bike but soo tall



i wish this could be a little lower and 50 kgms less its a great bike though
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:29 PM   #90
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It's spec looks like it would suit you down to the ground Minky.

Have to be a lot better than picking up that tall top heavy Tenere on the trails.
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